Combinatorics: Solving the Distinct Components of a Symmetric Tensor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the total combinations of k positive integers, constrained by a maximum value n, in the context of determining distinct components of a symmetric tensor. Participants explore combinatorial methods and mathematical reasoning related to this problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the problem of counting combinations of k integers under the constraint that they are non-decreasing and less than or equal to n.
  • Another suggests using an inductive argument starting with small values of n to derive a general formula.
  • Several participants share their attempts to calculate the number of combinations for specific values of n, but express difficulty in generalizing the results.
  • There is a discussion about the difference between choosing k out of n items with and without repetition, leading to the formulas nCk and n^k, respectively.
  • One participant proposes a method involving a transformation of the sequences to establish a bijection between x sequences and y sequences, suggesting that this could simplify the counting process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various approaches and methods to solve the problem, but there is no consensus on a definitive solution or method. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on how to proceed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the complexity of counting distinct combinations due to repeated elements, indicating that the problem may require careful consideration of how to account for these repetitions.

Mayan Fung
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If I have k positive integers, x1, x2, ..., xk and n(also an integer) where
$$ x_1≤x_2≤x_3≤...≤x_k≤n $$
How can I get the total combinations? I am trying to find the distinct components of a symmetric tensor. But I stuck here.
 
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Hey Chan Pok Fung.

Hint - Try fixing a case for n = 2 and then do an inductive argument.
 
I tried that but I couldn't get a simple mathematical form.
$$n=1, \#= 1$$
$$n=2, \#= 1+k$$
$$n=3, \#= \sum_{i=0}^k (1+k-i)= \frac{(k+1)(k+2)}{2}$$
$$n=4, \#= \sum_{i=0}^k \frac{(k+1)(k+2)}{2} = ...$$
I can't even get the n=4 term :( and I don't how how to generalize it. :(
 
I also tried starting from k = 1, and I still failed...
 
Chan Pok Fung said:
I also tried starting from k = 1, and I still failed...
I hope this is not homework.
How many ways are there of choosing k out of n items?
 
um... I have this doubt after doing my homework. Choosing k out of n items is nCk if they don't repeat. If they can repeat, then it is n^k.
 
Chan Pok Fung said:
um... I have this doubt after doing my homework. Choosing k out of n items is nCk if they don't repeat. If they can repeat, then it is n^k.
Right, so which applies here?
 
should be n^k and I need to find some ways to minus those counted repeatedly. For example, in the case of three objects, 123, 132, 213, 231, 312, 321 are the same. 122, 212, 221 are the same. But combination with "abc" forms are counted as 6 times, "abb" forms are counted as 3 times. Things even become more complicated for larger n and k. That's why I got stuck :(
 
Last edited:
Chan Pok Fung said:
should be n^k and I need to find some ways to minus those counted repeatedly. For example, in the case of three objects, 123, 132, 213, 231, 312, 321 are the same. 122, 212, 221 are the same. But combination with "abc" forms are counted as 6 times, "abb" forms are counted as 3 times. Things even become more complicated for larger n and k. That's why I got stuck :(
No, there's an easier way.
The trick is to map it into the distinct values case. Consider the sequence yi=xi+i.
 
  • #10
I still can't get a clue on that :cry:
 
  • #11
Chan Pok Fung said:
I still can't get a clue on that :cry:
Consider an arbitrary sequence of positive integers x1 to xn such that xi<=xi+1.
Now add 1 to the second term, 2 to the third term and so on to produce the sequence yi satisfying yi<yi+1.
It is clear that each x sequence produces a y sequence in a deteministic manner.
We can reverse the process. Given a y sequence, i.e. strictly increasing, we can subtract 1 from the second term, 2 from the third etc. to produce an x sequence. Again, a given y sequence can only produce one possible x sequence.
We have established a bijection, or 1 to 1 correspondence, whatever terminology you are familiar with. Thus there is the same number of x sequences as there is of y sequences.
If the set of x sequences was constrained by xn<=N, what is the constraint for the y sequences?
 
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  • #12
That sounds to be a clever method! I will try it after finishing my work on hand! Thanks!
 

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