Commutation relations for bosons and fermions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the commutation relations for bosonic and fermionic field operators, exploring their physical interpretations and implications. Participants examine the mathematical expressions governing these relations and their connection to the behavior of particles, particularly in terms of creation at the same spatial location.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the commutation relation for bosons is given by $${\varphi}_{x'}{\varphi}_{x} - {\varphi}_{x}{\varphi}_{x'} = 0$$, indicating that bosons can occupy the same state without restrictions.
  • Another participant notes that the anti-commutation relation for fermions is $${\psi}_{x'}{\psi}_{x} + {\psi}_{x}{\psi}_{x'} = 0$$, suggesting that two fermions cannot be created at the same position at the same time.
  • Some participants emphasize that the physical interpretation of these relations relates to the behavior of particles, with fermions changing sign upon interchange and bosons not exhibiting this behavior.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of the positions x and x', with one participant arguing that they can be equal, which would mean particles are created at the same location, reinforcing the idea that fermions cannot occupy the same state.
  • A later reply introduces the full relation for fermions, $$\psi(x)\psi(x^\prime)+\psi(x^\prime)\psi(x)=\delta(x-x^\prime)$$, which reflects the equality of positions and the implications of the Pauli exclusion principle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical forms of the commutation and anti-commutation relations, but there is some contention regarding the implications of these relations, particularly in terms of physical interpretation and the conditions under which particles can be created at the same position.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the interpretation of the commutation relations and their implications for particle behavior, particularly in the context of equal spatial positions.

Higgsono
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For the free boson, the field operators satisfies the commutation relation,

$${\varphi}_{x'}{\varphi}_{x} - {\varphi}_{x}{\varphi}_{x'} = 0$$ at equal times.

While the fermions satisfies,

$${\psi}_{x'}{\psi}_{x} + {\psi}_{x}{\psi}_{x'} = 0$$ at equal times.

I interpret ##{\varphi}_{x}## and ##{\psi}_{x'}## as creating a boson and a fermion at position x and x' respectively.

But what is the physical interpretation of the commutations relations? I'm trying to relate it to the fact that fermions changes sign when any two fermions are interchanged, while bosons do not.
 
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You can't create two fermions at the same place at the same time (but I bet you already knew that). ##\psi (x) \psi (x) + \psi(x)\psi(x)=0## so ##\psi(x)\psi(x)=0##

Bosons, on the other hand, "like" to be in the same state.
 
Gene Naden said:
You can't create two fermions at the same place at the same time (but I bet you already knew that). ##\psi (x) \psi (x) + \psi(x)\psi(x)=0## so ##\psi(x)\psi(x)=0##

Bosons, on the other hand, "like" to be in the same state.

They are not created at the same place. Did you notice the prime on the x's`?
 
But ##x## and ##x^\prime## are arbitrary. They can be equal. When they are equal then they are created at the same place. So that is part of the physical meaning: they cannot be created at the same place. The commutation and anti-commutation relations reflect the Pauli principle, I believe.

Anyway, the full relation is ##\psi(x)\psi(x^\prime)+\psi(x^\prime)\psi(x)=\delta(x-x^\prime)## so that reflects equality of ##x## and ##x^\prime##
 

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