Commutator of x and p in quantum mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of the commutator of position and momentum operators in quantum mechanics, specifically whether it should be considered a postulate. Participants explore the implications of this commutator, its derivation, and its relationship to classical mechanics through the lens of canonical quantization.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the commutator [x,p]=i$\hbar$ is a postulate, noting that no standard texts explicitly state it as such.
  • Others argue that the momentum operator can be derived from the principle of translation invariance, suggesting that the momentum operator is fundamentally linked to this symmetry.
  • A participant introduces the concept of the Poisson bracket from classical mechanics, proposing that its quantum counterpart, involving the commutator, provides a deeper understanding of the relationship between classical and quantum mechanics.
  • Some participants suggest that taking the commutator as a postulate allows for the derivation of both the momentum operator in position representation and the position operator in momentum representation.
  • There is mention of canonical quantization, where conjugate variables are related through the Poisson bracket and swapped with the commutator, reinforcing the idea that this commutator can be viewed as a postulate in this formalism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the commutator should be treated as a postulate. While some see it as a foundational aspect of quantum mechanics, others emphasize its derivation from broader principles, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the numerical value of $\hbar$ needs to be measured or postulated, which adds complexity to the discussion about the foundational nature of the commutator.

rbphysics
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TL;DR
Is it a postulate?
The commutator of [x,p]=i$\hbar$. Is it a postulate? No book state it as postulate of Quantum mechanics. But, I don't see anything more general by which I can derieve this. At elementary level Quantum mechanics, one start with momentum operator in position representation to derieve this. But that would mean to take momentum operator as postulate. But If we take the commutator as postulate one can derieve momentum operator in position representation as well as position operator in momentum repres
 
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rbphysics said:
But that would mean to take momentum operator as postulate.
Momentum is the Noether current associated with translation invariance. The momentum operator is the generator of translations. This is the principle from which the momentum operator follows.

But where does ##\hbar## occur in this? It fixes the units, but its numerical value needs to be measured, or „postulated“ (with respect to your question).
 
Following your interest to find more profound idea in quantum mechanics, Heisenberg and Dirac observed that Poissson Bracket {A,B} which appears in analytic mechanics, especially in Hamilton's equation of motion ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisson_bracket ) has its quantum version
$$ \frac{AB-BA}{i\hbar}$$
With this replacement all the classical mechanics structure becomes available in QM also.
As an example in CM, $$\{x,p\}=1$$ thus in QM
$$ \frac{xp-px}{i\hbar}=1$$
 
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rbphysics said:
TL;DR Summary: Is it a postulate?

The commutator of [x,p]=i$\hbar$. Is it a postulate? No book state it as postulate of Quantum mechanics. But, I don't see anything more general by which I can derive this. At elementary level Quantum mechanics, one start with momentum operator in position representation to derieve this. But that would mean to take momentum operator as postulate. But If we take the commutator as postulate one can derive momentum operator in position representation as well as position operator in momentum repres
A common way to quantize classical systems ("canonical quantization") is indeed to take conjugate variables ##q,p## that follow Poisson bracket relation ##\{q,p\}=1## and swap it by ##[\hat q,\hat p]=i\hbar##. So in this formalism, it is indeed a postulate.
 
rbphysics said:
TL;DR Summary: Is it a postulate?

The commutator of [x,p]=i$\hbar$. Is it a postulate? No book state it as postulate of Quantum mechanics. But, I don't see anything more general by which I can derieve this. At elementary level Quantum mechanics, one start with momentum operator in position representation to derieve this. But that would mean to take momentum operator as postulate. But If we take the commutator as postulate one can derieve momentum operator in position representation as well as position operator in momentum repres
You can take it as a postulate, and together with the algebra of the space-time transformations you can derive Quantum mechanics. See for example the book by Ballentine.
 

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