Time-energy uncertainty relation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the time-energy uncertainty relation in quantum mechanics, exploring the nature of time as a parameter versus an observable, the implications of various interpretations, and the derivation of the uncertainty principle. Participants raise questions about the definitions and roles of time and energy operators, as well as the validity of certain textbook statements.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the characterization of time as a parameter that commutes with all operators, suggesting that this may be a misunderstanding or misstatement in the literature.
  • There is a debate over whether time can be "set" to zero in a meaningful way, with some arguing that time cannot be prepared or confined like spatial coordinates.
  • Participants discuss the nature of wavefunctions, with some asserting that time is not an independent variable in the same sense as position, as wavefunctions are parameterized by time.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of rigorous derivations for the time-energy uncertainty relation, with references to specific papers that attempt to clarify this relationship.
  • Some participants emphasize that the energy operator is the Hamiltonian and not the operator associated with time derivatives, challenging the definitions presented in various textbooks.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of time in quantum mechanics, the interpretation of the time-energy uncertainty relation, and the definitions of operators. No consensus is reached regarding these points, and multiple competing views remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential confusion arising from different interpretations of time and energy operators in various texts, as well as the unresolved status of the rigorous derivation of the time-energy uncertainty principle.

  • #31
PeroK said:
Each of those parameters can be mapped to an operator which multiplies the function by that parameter
I'm not sure what operators you are talking about. For the position operators, which I think is what you mean by the operators corresponding to ##x##, ##y##, and ##z##, those operators only correspond to "multiply by ##x##" (or ##y## or ##z##) in the position representation. They don't in other representations. ##t## does not work that way; it is a scalar parameter and the only thing you can do with it is multiply by it, regardless of representation.

Also, ##x##, ##y##, and ##z## are not really parameters; they are labels for degrees of freedom (roughly speaking, dimensions in the Hilbert space). That is not a property that ##t## has.
 
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  • #32
##x,y,z## are not "dimensions in the Hilbert space" but the eigenvalues of the self-adjoint operators that represent the components of the position vector of the particle in the 1st-quantization formalism of (non-relativistic) QT.
 
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  • #33
vanhees71 said:
##x,y,z## are not "dimensions in the Hilbert space" but the eigenvalues of the self-adjoint operators that represent the components of the position vector of the particle in the 1st-quantization formalism of (non-relativistic) QT.
Strictly speaking, yes, ##x##, ##y##, and ##z##, or more precisely each possible value for each of those, are eigenvalues. But all of the possible eigenvalues, taken together, form a set of 3 continuous parameters that label the possible range of variation in the Hilbert space for a single spinless particle, in the position representation. "Dimension" might not be precisely the right technical term for this, but this is what I was referring to. And none of these things are the same as what ##t## is.
 
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  • #34
It's a "generalized basis of eigenvectors" (to put it in the usual physicists' hand-waving slang). The Hilbert space of the 1st-quantization formalism is the separable Hilbert space, i.e., it has a countable basis, isomorphic to ##\text{L}^2(\mathbb{R}^3)##. An example are the eigenfunctions of the 3D harmonic oscillator.

As stressed several times before, in QT ##t## is not an observable but a parameter; ##t## thus does also not denote eigenvalues of any operator.

In relativistic QFT ##x=(ct,\vec{x})## are Minkowski-vector valued parameters and also not eigenvalues of observables.
 
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