Comparing Energy Transfer and Speed Changes in Isolated Systems

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of isolated systems in the context of energy transfer and speed changes, particularly involving a block and a cylinder. Participants are exploring the application of conservation of energy and moment of inertia in solving the problem presented.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are considering the conservation of energy as a method to approach the problem, while others question the appropriateness of this method in relation to moment of inertia. There are discussions about the definitions and implications of an isolated system, particularly regarding the influence of external components like a fixed axle.

Discussion Status

The conversation is active, with various interpretations being explored. Some participants are providing guidance on how to approach the problem, while others are questioning assumptions about energy transfer and its effects on the system's components.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of missing information regarding relevant equations, and participants are navigating the complexities of energy conservation in relation to rotational and linear kinetic energies.

Amik
Messages
38
Reaction score
3
Homework Statement
I just want to know how to choose a isolates system
Relevant Equations
Isolated system
WeChat Image_20200109193333.jpg

I have difficulty at choosing isolated system.We can not choose rope and block to be the isolated system?This is for number 20.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
No clue what you mean by isolated system. Draw the two FBDs for the block and the cylinder.

Also, it looks like you deleted the section on the Relevant Equations. What is the Relevant Equation for the MOI of a mass? And the related Relevant Equation for the angular acceleration of such a mass with the calculated MOI?
 
I am choosing to use the conservation of energy to solve the problem.
 
Amik said:
I am choosing to use the conservation of energy to solve the problem.
How so? What's your plan of attack? I believe it is doable, but I'd like to see your approach.
 
Amik said:
I am choosing to use the conservation of energy to solve the problem.
COE to solve a MOI problem? I wouldn't think that's possible, but @gneill hints that it might be possible, and I trust him... :smile:

Okay, I see it now, but that wouldn't be my first approach to this fairly simple problem. Just sayin' :smile:
 
I know using moment of inertia is way easier and this problem is in the section of the conversation of energy
 
Amik said:
I know using moment of inertia is way easier and this problem is in the section of the conversation of energy
You'll need the MOI anyways in order to determine how the energy is split between rotational and linear kinetic energies.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: berkeman
Yeah, I know.
 
Okay. While the fixed axle of the cylinder is clearly tying the system into a "greater" outside system, you should be able to proceed as though the cylinder and dangling mass are isolated as far as energy is concerned. What that axle is tied to can be taken as so massive that no appreciable momentum or energy will be transferred there. So what's your plan?
 
  • #10
gneill said:
What that axle is tied to can be taken as so massive that no appreciable momentum or energy will be transferred there.
I think what you want to say is that the transfer of energy that takes place changes appreciably the rotational speed of the cylinder and the linear speed of the hanging mass but not the corresponding speeds of whatever the axle is tied to. The energy gain by one has the same magnitude as the energy loss by the other. To determine whether the energy transfer is negligible, it needs to be compared against an energy other than itself. It's the speeds that need be compared, not the energy transfer.
 
  • #11
kuruman said:
I think what you want to say is that the transfer of energy that takes place changes appreciably the rotational speed of the cylinder and the linear speed of the hanging mass but not the corresponding speeds of whatever the axle is tied to. The energy gain by one has the same magnitude as the energy loss by the other. To determine whether the energy transfer is not appreciable, it needs to be compared against another energy other than itself. It's the speeds that need be compared, not the energy transfer.
Yes, that's a much better description of what I was intending. I sometimes find I'm too curt in my responses. Thanks for the assist.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: kuruman

Similar threads

Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
866
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
3K