Completed Phase III of Turtle Run (plod)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the construction and functionality of a turtle habitat, specifically focusing on the recent completion of a basement area for a turtle named Winston. Participants explore various aspects of the habitat design, turtle behavior, and feeding strategies, with a mix of technical details and personal anecdotes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the dimensions and features of the turtle habitat, including a basement area designed for egg-laying and a long ramp for increased running space.
  • Several participants question the term "plod" in relation to turtle movement, with some suggesting it may not be the most appropriate descriptor.
  • There is a discussion about the turtle's behavior, particularly regarding her speed when food is present, contrasting with her more leisurely movements otherwise.
  • Participants share insights on the turtle's comfort level with human interaction and her recent discovery of being scratched, which seems to enhance her contentment.
  • Concerns are raised about whether the turtle will adapt to the new basement area and how she perceives the space compared to her previous environment.
  • Ideas are proposed for enticing the turtle to explore the new area, including using treats and adjusting their placement to accommodate her feeding habits.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the naturalness of the turtle exploring areas below her accustomed water level, while others speculate on her cognitive processing of the new environment.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally share a curiosity about the turtle's behavior and the effectiveness of the habitat design, but there are multiple competing views regarding the appropriateness of terminology and the turtle's ability to adapt to the new space. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly regarding the turtle's exploration and cognitive responses.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the turtle's behavior due to the subjective nature of observations and the potential influence of human presence on her actions. The discussion includes various assumptions about animal cognition and behavior that are not universally agreed upon.

DaveC426913
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TL;DR
Just showing off my enclosure for "Winston" - an 8" Reeves (Chinese Pond) Turtle
  • 260L (70gal) tank,
  • 23 linear feet of running space
  • 2 basking areas (2 sq. ft. astro turf, 6 sq ft. dirt)
on a footprint of only 6 square feet.

front.jpg


left.jpg


right.jpg


I just completed
Phase III - The Basement
A plywood box, hinged, locking lid, lined with 7mil plastic sheet and filled with "Reptisoil".
Covered in plastic chicken wire, secured with staples and zip ties.
The whole basement box slides out for cleaning.
The long ramp to get to down to the basement has pretty much doubled the total linear feet of run.
It has its own heat lamp. Hopefully, she'll go down here to lay her eggs.
 
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What's a plod? Donning my Googles :wink: doesn't help...
 
DaveC426913 said:
23 linear feet of running space
Is this really the appropriate term?
 
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jack action said:
Is this really the appropriate term?
It's an example of plodding. (@berkeman )
@DaveC426913 I can almost see Winston swimming but could we have a portrait of the young man?

Ace project though! Well done
 
jack action said:
Is this really the appropriate term?
You wouldn't be asking this question if you saw her moves when there's a pinkie finger within chomping range. ZOOOOOM!
 
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sophiecentaur said:
but could we have a portrait of the young man?
:oldconfused:
 
Sorry, young lady.
 
sophiecentaur said:
Sorry, young lady.
Oh, I misunderstood.


Yes. Winston was named by her owner who didn't know how to sex turtles. I inherited Winston, rescued from a filthy tank with no terrestrial basking access or heater.

I Googled sexing and concluded W. was male. Then, a few months later, I changed my verdict after discovering my own foolproof way of sexing turtles:

Count the eggs. If there's more than zero, it's a female.

You can see her in the broadside-on pic in the opening post. I'll post a better mug.
 
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DaveC426913 said:
You can see her in the broadside-on pic in the opening post.
I did spot her but I'm sure you could do a lot better for her.
 
  • #10
Winston, after her favourite snack.

winnie.jpg
 
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  • #12
A fluorescent lamp for Basking?? :oldconfused:

1739068860680.jpeg
 
  • #13
Tom.G said:
A fluorescent lamp for Basking?? :oldconfused:
No.

IR lamp keeps basking area at 30-35C:
1739071156244.png


You see, the basking area is up on the right there - opposite end from the tank ramp. This means she has quite a few feet to run/plod to get from her one favourite area to her other favourite area.

1739071857867.png


I built it this way to ensure she gets plenty of exercise. She thinks I built it this way to put her within optimal chomping range of the tastiest fingers.

All human traffic passes the right side, where she basks. She can watch the wife work in her office, and watch (or at least, hear) people in the kitchen in that far room. She can even see people come down the stairs. She spends most of her day under that basking lamp keeping tabs on all human activity.

Man, if she's not in her basking area when you approach, she'll hightail it over there in hurry. It sounds like a guy wailin' on a board with a big-ass hammer - WHAMWHAMWHAM.

Even better is if she is in her basking area and I go to feed her a fat earthworm or a grape. She grabs it, bites it clean in half, and then takes off with it like bank robber in a very loud getway car. WHAMWHAMWHAMSPLASH! (she prefers to eat her food in the water.)
 
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  • #14
It sounds like she is pretty at ease with you and your activities.
When you added a wing to it did it take long for her to find out about it and explore it?
Did she remember it from a single interaction?
 
  • #15
BillTre said:
It sounds like she is pretty at ease with you and your activities.
She has just recently discovered bum-scratching. It has brought about a whole new state in her: that of passive contentment. She loves the bum-scratching, but wehen I'm done, she just sits completely passively - even if she's in the water, even if I'm right near her. I've never seen her ... content before. Torpid, yes, but not content.

BillTre said:
When you added a wing to it did it take long for her to find out about it and explore it?
Did she remember it from a single interaction?
It's been a pretty iterative process all along. First, just a ramp, then a ramp with a basking area, then a ramp with a run with a basking area. But it's always had a heat source at the end, so she keeps exploring until he reaches the heat lamp at the end.

This last iteration - the basement - is qualitatively different, in that, for the first time, her run is not a one-dimensional (albeit circuitous) line. She now has a choice to make - a three-way intersection, as it were, here at the top of the tank ramp:

1739116317192.png

I am curious as to what that does to expand her brain, having a decision to make.

But no so far, she hasn't made it. I've placed her in various spots in the new basement and the various ramps leading to it, but she hasn't quite made the mental leap on her own yet. She navigates the tiny ramp in and out of the dirt basement, but she hasn't figured out the long ramp up/down to/from her more familiar territory. I will start tests luring her in short sections. She is easily lured by any movement anyhere near the setup.

What I do not know yet is if the basement is sufficiently enticing to draw here there on her own. This may all have been a waste of time and resources.
 
  • #16
DaveC426913 said:
This may all have been a waste of time and resources.
I am curious as to what that does to expand your brain.
 
  • #17
I was wondering about how "natural" it would be to go to places located lower then the water level she is used to.
 
  • #18
jack action said:
I am curious as to what that does to expand your brain.
Indeed. It was not a waste of time as far as I am concerned, as I took great joy in designing it and building it. I had little choice, after going to sleep and waking up thinking about it.
 
  • #19
BillTre said:
I was wondering about how "natural" it would be to go to places located lower then the water level she is used to.
I have thought of this. It is my belief that animals simpler than large mammals don't view the world holistically or abstractly; they view it concretely. It simply is what it is.
 
  • #20
DaveC426913 said:
I am curious as to what that does to expand her brain, having a decision to make.
There may be very few direct equivalents to Dave's construction but there will be many examples of ponds situated high up on a slope and tunnels at a lower level. I can't imagine turtles getting confused in a way that would stop them investigating below water level.
 
  • #21
Would a trail of yummy treats leading to the far corners get her in the exploring mode?
 
  • #22
Spinnor said:
Would a trail of yummy treats leading to the far corners get her in the exploring mode?
Heh. That might work. There are a few problems with that:
  • Because of her hard beak, and her inability to tilt her head downward, it is virtually impossible for her to pick up treats off a hard, flat surface, which is why I usually end up having to supervise her feedings.
  • I could use something larger, like grapes, which she could grab, but I have to be very careful of feeding her too much at once. When turtles get overfed, they shed their skin like crazy. They look like they are disintegrating!
Still, it's a good idea. I'll see if I can find some happy compromise.

Maybe I can prop them up on something, or hang them from threads. I do that with earthworms. Run a safety pin through them and hang em like on a (safe) fish hook for her to find.
 
  • #23
Lettuce poked through the wire at beak level?
 
  • #24
Spinnor said:
Lettuce poked through the wire at beak level?
Yes. That's the "active" way of doing it.

The problem is The Hawthorne Effect, AKA the Observer Effect. She is far, far more interested in what I am doing than in any bit of food.

Combine that with the fact that I can't get anywhere near the back of the tank - it's against the wall. Basically, I summon her toward me by standing at a strategic point outside the tank where she can see me. She will make a beeline toward me.

Which is fine inasmuch as it gets her to walk the path, but she does it for the wrong reasons. She's not independently associating the new route with anything good (like food or water or heat); she is simply mindlessly moving directly toward me via the most direct line-of-sight path. So if I I'm not there, she has no reason to explore that path.

Ah! the trials and tribulations of owning a reptile...
 
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  • #25
Update:
Yay! I just found her scootin' about in her basement! Got there all on her own! Let's see if she finds her way out again...
 
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  • #26
And so she did!

Mission accomplished!
 
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