Conditional Probability on Intermediate Event

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the formula for conditional probability involving an intermediate event, specifically the expression P(A | C) = ∑_{B} P(A | B ∩ C) * P(B | C). Participants seek to understand the derivation and intuitive meaning of this formula, as well as its application in probability theory and Markov Chains.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the formula P(A | C) = ∑_{B} P(A | B ∩ C) * P(B | C) and request help in understanding its derivation and intuitive meaning.
  • Others suggest that the formula requires a B on the left side to make sense, indicating a need for clarity in its application.
  • A participant references its use in Uniformization and provides a related formula for transition probabilities in continuous time Markov Chains, suggesting a connection to the original formula.
  • Another participant discusses the fundamental matrix relationship for continuous time Markov chains and suggests using properties of operator algebras to derive expressions related to the transition matrix.
  • One participant attempts to clarify the relationship between the discussed formula and the more familiar formula P(A) = ∑_{B} P(A | B) P(B), emphasizing the importance of the probability space in interpreting conditional probabilities.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of Venn diagrams in representing conditional probabilities and the implications of the notation used in probability theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express confusion and seek clarification on the formula, indicating a lack of consensus on its intuitive understanding and derivation. Multiple competing views and interpretations are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for a clear understanding of the probability space and the implications of conditional notation, which may not be fully captured in visual representations like Venn diagrams. The discussion also touches on advanced concepts related to Markov Chains, which may introduce additional complexity.

3.141592654
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I have seen in class the following formula used:

P(A | C) = \sum_{B} P(A | B \cap C)*P(B | C)

I don't understand how this formula works? Can anyone help me understand how it can be derived and how I can understand it intuitively? Can a venn diagram be drawn to illustrate this formula?
 
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3.141592654 said:
I have seen in class the following formula used:

P(A | C) = \sum_{B} P(A | B \cap C)*P(B | C)

I don't understand how this formula works? Can anyone help me understand how it can be derived and how I can understand it intuitively? Can a venn diagram be drawn to illustrate this formula?

It seems you need a B somewhere on the left side of the equation for it to make sense (ie P(A|B,C))
 
This is a formula that is seen, for example, in Uniformization:

P_{ij}(t) = P(X(t) = j|X(0) = i)

= \sum^{n=0}_{\infty} P(X(t) = j|X(0) = i, N(t) = n)P(N(t) = n|X(0) = i)

= \sum^{\infty}_{n=0} P^{n}_{ij} \frac{(e^{vt})(vt^n)}{n!}

Where P_{ij}(t) is the transition probability in a continuous time Markov Chain.

Going from the first to second line above is where I got the generalized equation I presented in my original post.
 
3.141592654 said:
This is a formula that is seen, for example, in Uniformization:

P_{ij}(t) = P(X(t) = j|X(0) = i)

= \sum^{n=0}_{\infty} P(X(t) = j|X(0) = i, N(t) = n)P(N(t) = n|X(0) = i)

= \sum^{\infty}_{n=0} P^{n}_{ij} \frac{(e^{vt})(vt^n)}{n!}

Where P_{ij}(t) is the transition probability in a continuous time Markov Chain.

Going from the first to second line above is where I got the generalized equation I presented in my original post.

Hey 3.141592654.

You should try going from the fundamental matrix relationship for continuous time markov chains which is in the form:

dP/dt = PQ for a valid matrix A where P is your transition matrix. You should then get the general solution P(t) = e^(tQ) for t >= 0. You can use properties of operator algebras for any general expression in terms of calculating or you can use some algebra to find closed for expression for p(i,j)(t).
 
3.141592654 said:
I have seen in class the following formula used:

P(A | C) = \sum_{B} P(A | B \cap C)*P(B | C)

I don't understand how this formula works? Can anyone help me understand how it can be derived and how I can understand it intuitively? Can a venn diagram be drawn to illustrate this formula?

Do you understand the formula P(A) = \sum_{B} P(A| B) P(B)?

The formula you quoted above is the same formula.

(In both formulas, the variable B must range over a collection of mutually exclusive sets whose union contains A. In problems, this collection of sets is usually a "partition" of the entire probability space. )

The notation "|" for "given" cannot be captured by the visual appearance of a Venn diagram. The event denoted by "X|Y " and the event denoted by X \cap Y are the same set of points.

The notation P(X|Y) implies that we consider the "probability space" to be the set Y.

The notation P(X \cap Y) implies that we consider the whole probability space to be whatever it is in the statement of the problem, before any conditions are mentioned.

Any "law" of probability like P(A^c) = 1 - P(A) is understood to apply within some given probability space of "all possible outcomes". If we let S represent this space then we could write P(A^c|S) = 1 - P(A|S). Usually we leave the space S out of our notation.

The formula P(A) = \sum_{B} P(A|B) P(B) applied when the probability space is C becomes:

P(A|C) = \sum_{B} P( (A|B) | C) P(B|C)

This leaves only the problem of interpreting P( (A|B) | C). We have to argue that this is the same as P(A | B \cap C). It might be a tangle of words to do so, but I hope it is intuitively clear.
 

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