Conditional probability prove or disprove

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of two statements regarding conditional probability: 1) \(P(A\mid B)=1-P(\overline{A}\mid B)\) 2) \(P(A\mid B)=1-P(A\mid \overline{B})\). Participants explore whether these statements can be proven or disproven, engaging in technical reasoning and examples.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims to have proven that \(P(A\mid B)=1-P(\overline{A}\mid B)\) is true under the assumption that \(P(B)>0\).
  • Another participant questions the validity of the first statement when \(P(B)=0\), suggesting that conditional probability is not defined in that case.
  • Participants discuss the implications of \(P(B)=0\) on the definition of conditional probabilities, noting that it leads to undefined expressions.
  • There is a challenge regarding the second statement, with one participant attempting to derive it from the definition of conditional probability but encountering a contradiction when using \(A=\Omega\).
  • Some participants express uncertainty about how the complement rule applies to the statements being discussed.
  • One participant recognizes that a proof by contradiction is being employed in the discussion, suggesting it should be explicitly mentioned.
  • Another participant confirms the correctness of a counterexample used to illustrate the second statement's potential failure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the second statement, as it is challenged and explored through examples and counterexamples. The first statement's validity is also questioned under specific conditions, leading to ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations regarding the definitions of conditional probabilities when \(P(B)=0\), which affects the applicability of the discussed statements. The exploration of the complement rule is also noted as potentially unclear.

mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

Let $P$ be a probability measure on a $\sigma$-Algebra $\mathcal{A}$. I want to prove or disprove the following statements:
  1. $P(A\mid B)=1-P(\overline{A}\mid B)$, for $A, B\in \mathcal{A}$
  2. $P(A\mid B)=1-P(A\mid \overline{B})$, for $A, B\in \mathcal{A}$
I have done the following:
  1. We have that $B=\left (A\cap B\right )\cup \left (\overline{A}\cap B\right )$. Since the sets $\left (A\cap B\right )$ and $\left (\overline{A}\cap B\right )$ are disjoint we have that $P\left [\left (A\cap B\right )\cup \left (\overline{A}\cap B\right )\right ]=P\left (A\cap B\right )+P \left (\overline{A}\cap B\right )$.
    Therefore, we get $P(B)=P\left (A\cap B\right )+P \left (\overline{A}\cap B\right )$.

    We have that $P(A\mid B)=\frac{P(A\cap B)}{P(B)}\Rightarrow P(A\cap B)=P(A\mid B)P(B)$ and $P(\overline{A}\mid B)=\frac{P(\overline{A}\cap B)}{P(B)}\Rightarrow P(\overline{A}\cap B)=P(\overline{A}\mid B)P(B)$.

    So, we get $P(B)=P(A\mid B)P(B)+P(\overline{A}\mid B)P(B) \Rightarrow P(B)=P(B)\left [P(A\mid B)+P(\overline{A}\mid B)\right ] \overset{P(B)>0}{\Rightarrow }1=P(A\mid B)+P(\overline{A}\mid B) \Rightarrow P(A\mid B)=1-P(\overline{A}\mid B)$
    So, the statement is true.

    Is this correct? $$$$
  2. $P(A\mid B)=1-P(A\mid \overline{B})$, for $A, B\in \mathcal{A}$

    From the definition of conditional probability then we get the statement $\frac{P(A\cap B)}{P(B)}=1-\frac{P(A\cap \overline{B})}{P(\overline{B})}$.

    For $A=\Omega$ we get $\frac{P(\Omega\cap B)}{P(B)}=1-\frac{P(\Omega\cap \overline{B})}{P(\overline{B})}\Rightarrow \frac{P( B)}{P(B)}=1-\frac{P( \overline{B})}{P(\overline{B})}\Rightarrow 1=1-1 \Rightarrow 1=0$, a contradiction.

    Therefore, this statement is in general not true.

    Is this correct?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
mathmari said:
1. $P(A\mid B)=1-P(\overline{A}\mid B)$, for $A, B\in \mathcal{A}$

Hey mathmari!

What if $P(B)=0$? (Wondering)

mathmari said:
2. $P(A\mid B)=1-P(A\mid \overline{B})$, for $A, B\in \mathcal{A}$

From the definition of conditional probability then we get the statement $\frac{P(A\cap B)}{P(B)}=1-\frac{P(A\cap \overline{B})}{P(\overline{B})}$.

How do we get that? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
What if $P(B)=0$? (Wondering)

If $P(B)=0$ then the conditional probaibility $P(A\mid B)$ is not defined, is it? (Wondering)
I like Serena said:
How do we get that? (Wondering)

By definition we have that $P(A\mid B)=\frac{P(A\cap B)}{P(B)}$ and $P(A\mid \overline{B})=\frac{P(A\cap \overline{B})}{P(\overline{B})} $, or not? Therefore we get that $P(A\mid B)=1-P(A\mid \overline{B})$ is equivalent to $1-\frac{P(A\cap \overline{B})}{P(\overline{B})} $. Is this wrong? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
If $P(B)=0$ then the conditional probaibility $P(A\mid B)$ is not defined, is it? (Wondering)

Ah yes.
That's because $P(A\mid B)=\frac{P(A\cap B)}{P(B)}$, which is indeed undefined if $P(B)=0$.

mathmari said:
By definition we have that $P(A\mid B)=\frac{P(A\cap B)}{P(B)}$ and $P(A\mid \overline{B})=\frac{P(A\cap \overline{B})}{P(\overline{B})} $, or not?

Yes.

mathmari said:
Therefore we get that $P(A\mid B)=1-P(A\mid \overline{B})$ is equivalent to $1-\frac{P(A\cap \overline{B})}{P(\overline{B})} $. Is this wrong?

Well, I'm only aware of the complement rule $P(\overline U)=1-P(U)$, but it's not clear to me how this is applied. :confused:
 
I like Serena said:
Well, I'm only aware of the complement rule $P(\overline U)=1-P(U)$, but it's not clear to me how this is applied. :confused:

From the definition of the conditional probability we have that $P(A\mid B)=\frac{\mathbb{P}(A\cap B)}{\mathbb{P}(B)}$ and $P(A\mid \overline{B})=\frac{\mathbb{P}(A\cap \overline{B})}{\mathbb{P}(\overline{B})}$.

Replacing these at $\mathbb{P}(A\mid B)=1-\mathbb{P}(A\mid \overline{B})$ we get $\frac{\mathbb{P}(A\cap B)}{\mathbb{P}(B)}=1-\frac{\mathbb{P}(A\cap \overline{B})}{\mathbb{P}(\overline{B})}$.

Isn't it correct? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
From the definition of the conditional probability we have that $P(A\mid B)=\frac{\mathbb{P}(A\cap B)}{\mathbb{P}(B)}$ and $P(A\mid \overline{B})=\frac{\mathbb{P}(A\cap \overline{B})}{\mathbb{P}(\overline{B})}$.

Replacing these at $\mathbb{P}(A\mid B)=1-\mathbb{P}(A\mid \overline{B})$ we get $\frac{\mathbb{P}(A\cap B)}{\mathbb{P}(B)}=1-\frac{\mathbb{P}(A\cap \overline{B})}{\mathbb{P}(\overline{B})}$.

Isn't it correct? (Wondering)

Oh wait! You're doing a proof by contradiction!
I totally missed that.
Perhaps good to mention that. That is, 'suppose it is true, then...'. (Nerd)
 
I like Serena said:
Oh wait! You're doing a proof by contradiction!
I totally missed that.
Perhaps good to mention that. That is, 'suppose it is true, then...'. (Nerd)

Ah ok! Is the counterexample that I used correct? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Ah ok! Is the counterexample that I used correct?

Yes. (Nod)
 
I like Serena said:
Yes. (Nod)

Great! Thank you! (Yes)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
936
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
10
Views
1K