Confusion over transposing formulae question

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    Confusion Formulae
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of transposing formulae, specifically focusing on an exercise from a mathematics textbook. Participants are attempting to understand how to isolate a variable in given equations, with particular attention to the formula y = ¹/₂x and its manipulation to express x in terms of y.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion over the transposition of the formula y = ¹/₂x, believing the correct rearrangement should yield x = 2y instead of x = ¹/₂y.
  • Another participant confirms the initial formula y = ¹/₂x is correct but questions the validity of the rearrangement to x = ¹/₂y.
  • A different participant suggests testing specific values for x to verify the correctness of the formulas, indicating that the rearrangement may not hold true.
  • There is mention of a different equation y = (¹)/(₂)(x - 7) and its manipulation, which leads to further confusion regarding the transposition process.
  • Participants discuss the need for clarity on rules or methods for rearranging equations, with one suggesting that mistakes may be occurring in the process.
  • One participant outlines basic operations allowed in rearranging equations, such as adding or multiplying both sides by the same quantity, but does not provide a definitive solution to the confusion expressed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct method for transposing the formulas. There are multiple competing views regarding the validity of the rearrangements and the rules governing them, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the rules for rearranging formulas, indicating that their approaches yield different results. There is a lack of clarity on the assumptions or steps taken in the transposition process, which contributes to the confusion.

Buggsy GC
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Hello I'm working through transposing formulae of pearsons Anthony Croft and Robert Davidson's foundation maths 5th edition and I'm stuck on exercise 10.1 question 1)e)
We're it states that I must transpose the formula to make x the subject.
The formula is y = ¹/₂x and the answer x = ¹/₂y
I don't understand how they got this answer. As I did the working as
E)y = 1/2x
× 2
(2)(y) = ⁽¹⁾/₍₂₎x × ⁽²⁾/₍₁₎
2y = x
I base this way of a working off another question which I got correct
D)y = (¹)/(₂)(x - 7)
+ 7
y + 7 = ¹/₂x
× 2
(2)(y + 7) = ⁽¹⁾/₍₂₎x × ⁽²⁾/₍₁₎
2y + 14 = x
x = 2y + 14
If I am missing some rule that I'm meant to implement or if there is a error in the textbook your advise would be greatly appreciated.
Yours sincerely Buggsy
 
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Buggsy GC said:
E)y = 1/2x
× 2
(2)(y) = ⁽¹⁾/₍₂₎x × ⁽²⁾/₍₁₎
2y = x
That is correct.
D)y = (¹)/(₂)(x - 7)
+ 7
y + 7 = ¹/₂x
That step is incorrect at the right side.

Try x=7 and see if you can find a value for y such that both the initial and the final formula are right.
Buggsy GC said:
The formula is y = ¹/₂x and the answer x = ¹/₂y
That does not make sense.
 
If ##y = \frac{1}{2x}## then ##x = \frac{1}{2y}## is correct.

Try ##x = 1## for example.
 
I didn't expect x and y to be in the denominator.
 
I know but look
IMG_1479155097.809314.jpg
IMG_1479155113.861736.jpg
 
Pardon me Perok can you take a picture of your working and post it, for some reason your post shows up on my screen as a bunch of hashtags and letters.
Thank you
 
Buggsy GC said:
Pardon me Perok can you take a picture of your working and post it, for some reason your post shows up on my screen as a bunch of hashtags and letters.
Thank you
I'm sorry to tell you I did it in my head!
 
Hint: multiply by ##x## to start.
 
So it look like this https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/108916
Ok second question how did you know to start with x not to just repeat the same action I used to get rid of the 1/2x in question d)
We're the answer was x =2y + 14 were the original formula was y = ¹/₂x - 7
 
  • #10
Buggsy GC said:
So it look like this https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/108916
Ok second question how did you know to start with x not to just repeat the same action I used to get rid of the 1/2x in question d)
We're the answer was x =2y + 14 were the original formula was y = ¹/₂x - 7
That last equation is very different. That is

##y = \frac{x}{2} - 7##
 
  • #11
I'm sorry this taking a while but can tell me is there a rule I should remember or an order of operation when rearranging formulas as I' m getting different answers depending on how I start to balance the equation even if I balance both sides all the way through
 
  • #13
Question e) and d) 10.1
 
  • #14
Buggsy GC said:
I'm sorry this taking a while but can tell me is there a rule I should remember or an order of operation when rearranging formulas as I' m getting different answers depending on how I start to balance the equation even if I balance both sides all the way through

That simply means you are making a mistake. There are no rules except you can: a) add the same thing to both sides of the equation; or, b) multiply both sides of the equation by the same thing. That same thing can be a number, such as ##2## a parameter, such as ##a##, or a variable, such as ##x##.

For example:

##y = ax + b##

##y-b = ax## (added ##-b## to both sides, which is the same thing as subtracting ##b##)

##\frac{y-b}{a} = x## (multiplied both sides by ##\frac{1}{a}##, which is the same as dividing by ##a##)

Another example is:

##y = \frac{1}{x}##

##xy = 1## (muliplied both sides by ##x##)

##x = \frac{1}{y}## (divided both sides by ##y##)
 

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