Congruences with Fractions: Understanding the Definition and Examples

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition and implications of congruences involving fractions, particularly in the context of modular arithmetic. Participants explore how congruences are traditionally defined for integers and whether these definitions can be extended to fractions. The conversation includes examples and questions about the validity of certain congruences and the concept of modular inverses.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how congruences are defined for fractions, noting that the standard definition for integers does not seem to apply directly.
  • Another participant asserts that congruences are not defined for fractions, suggesting a limitation in the traditional framework.
  • Some participants propose interpreting fractions in terms of modular inverses, where a/b represents a multiplied by the inverse of b, rather than a traditional fraction.
  • There is a discussion about the existence of inverses in modular arithmetic, with emphasis on the condition that certain numbers do not have inverses, such as 0 mod m.
  • One participant provides an example of how to derive congruences involving fractions from integer congruences by using modular inverses.
  • Participants discuss the implications of choosing different values for the modular inverse and the relationship between these values and their congruences.
  • There is a clarification that while one can choose different representatives for modular inverses, they must be congruent to each other under the modulus.
  • Another participant notes that there are numbers in certain moduli that lack inverses but are not congruent to 0 mod n, expanding the discussion on the conditions for the existence of inverses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of congruences to fractions, with some arguing for a reinterpretation using modular inverses while others maintain that traditional definitions do not extend to fractions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct approach to defining congruences for fractions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of congruences and inverses, as well as the unresolved nature of how fractions fit into the framework of modular arithmetic. The discussion highlights the need for clarity on the conditions under which inverses exist.

Edgardo
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I have a question about congruences involving fractions.

For integers a and b the following is defined:
a and b are congruent modulo m (m is a natural number) if there exists
an integer k such that k*m = a-b

a \equiv b (\mbox{mod } m) \Longleftrightarrow \exists k \in \mathbb{Z} : km = a-b

For example:
13 \equiv 4 (\mbox{mod } 9) because 1 \cdot 9 = 13-4On the Wolfram mathworld website there are other examples in (8):
2 \cdot 4 \equiv 1 (\mbox{mod } 7)
3 \cdot 3 \equiv 2 (\mbox{mod } 7)
6 \cdot 6 \equiv 1 (\mbox{mod } 7)

So far, so good.

But then in (9) they write:

\frac{1}{2} \equiv 4 (\mbox{mod } 7)

\frac{1}{4} \equiv 2 (\mbox{mod } 7)

\frac{2}{3} \equiv 3 (\mbox{mod } 7)

\frac{1}{6} \equiv 6 (\mbox{mod } 7)

which I don't understand.

At first I thought that for fractions a and b the definition is just extended:
a \equiv b (\mbox{mod } m) \Longleftrightarrow \exists k \in \mathbb{Z} : km = a-b
with a and b fractions (instead of just integers).

But the definition of congruence for fractions must be different since
there is no k \in \mathbb{N} such that

\frac{1}{2} - 4 = k \cdot 7:

\frac{1}{2} - 4 = k \cdot 7
\Rightarrow \frac{1}{2} - \frac{8}{2} = k \cdot 7
\Rightarrow -\frac{7}{2} = k \cdot 7
\Rightarrow k=-\frac{1}{2}My questions:
a) How are congruences defined for fractions? And why is (9) correct?
b) Does (8) imply (9) ?
 
Last edited:
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Congruences are not defined for fractions.
 
Instead of thinking about a/b as a fraction, let a/b mean a times the inverse of b.
So when we write
\frac{1}{2} \equiv 4 (\mbox{mod } 7)
We don't mean the fraction 1/2, but 1 times the inverse of 2. The inverse of 2 is the number for which 2 * a = 1 mod 7, which is a = 4.
You can get (9) from (8) by multiplying each side of the congruence by the inverse of a certain element.
Also, be careful, 1/7 is not defined here mod 7 because 7 is congruent to 0 has no inverse. There is no number, a, for which 7 * a = 1 mod 7.
 
Update: I added the link to the Wolfram mathworld website in my first post.

And thanks for the answers so far.

MrJB said:
Instead of thinking about a/b as a fraction, let a/b mean a times the inverse of b.
So when we write
\frac{1}{2} \equiv 4 (\mbox{mod } 7)
We don't mean the fraction 1/2, but 1 times the inverse of 2. The inverse of 2 is the number for which 2 * a = 1 mod 7, which is a = 4.

This is very helpful. I didn't know that the modular inverse was meant.
You wrote that "The inverse of 2 is the number for which 2 * a = 1 mod 7, which is a = 4".
Can I also choose a = 11 ?
Or does a have to be in a certain set?

MrJB said:
You can get (9) from (8) by multiplying each side of the congruence by the inverse of a certain element.
If I understood you correctly the following holds:

ab \equiv c (\mbox{mod }m) \Longleftrightarrow \frac{c}{a} \equiv b (\mbox{mod } m)

For example: a=3, b=3, c=2 and m=7, then

3 \cdot 3 \equiv 2 (\mbox{mod }7) \Longleftrightarrow \frac{2}{3} \equiv 3 (\mbox{mod } 7)

Ok. I think I have worked out why this is so.
MrJB said:
Also, be careful, 1/7 is not defined here mod 7 because 7 is congruent to 0 has no inverse. There is no number, a, for which 7 * a = 1 mod 7.

I understand that 1/7 is not defined in mod 7 because "There is no number a, for which 7 * a = 1 mod 7".
But what do you mean by the bold part?
And why the hint on 1/7?

Thanks.

Regards,
Edgardo
 
Last edited:
Edgardo said:
You wrote that "The inverse of 2 is the number for which 2 * a = 1 mod 7, which is a = 4".
Can I also choose a = 11 ?
Or does a have to be in a certain set?
You can choose a = 11, but of course 11 = 4 mod 7. In fact, any number which satisfies this equation must be congruent to 4 mod 7. Therefore, we tend to choose the least positive integer that satisfies the equation, because all the other solutions can be gotten by adding multiples of seven to it.
 
Thanks for the answer Moo of Doom. Also for the hint that you get other possible values for "a" if you add multiples of 7. I was trying to find another value and found a=11 only after considering
2a \equiv 1 (\mbox{mod } 7) <=> 2a - 1 = 7k <=> 2a = 7k + 1
I plugged in k=1 which gives a=4,
then I set k=2 resulting in no possible a,
then I set k=3 and found a=11.

But as you said, it is easier to consider the following:
Let "a" satisfy 2a \equiv 1(\mbox{mod } 7), then "a+7p" satisfies 2(a+7p) \equiv 1 (\mbox{mod } 7).

Proof:
2a \equiv 1 (\mbox{mod } 7)
<=> 2a-1 = 7k
<=> 2a + 2*7p - 1 = 7k + 2*7p
<=> 2(a+7p) - 1 = 7(k+2p)
<=>
2(a+7p) \equiv 1 (\mbox{mod } 7)
 
Last edited:
What I mean is any number congruent to 0 mod 7 isn't going to have an inverse.
This is important because here,
ab \equiv c (\mbox{mod }m) \Longleftrightarrow \frac{c}{a} \equiv b (\mbox{mod } m)
you are multiplying each side of the congruence by the inverse of a. If the inverse doesn't exist then this equation doesn't hold, or even make sense. The equation is true as long as a is not congruent to 0 mod 7.
 
Thanks for the answer MrJB!
 
I think it's also worth noting that in other moduli there are numbers without inverses that are not congruent to 0 mod n. For example, 2 has no inverse mod 4.
 

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