Conservation of Four-Momentum in Inertial Frames

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of four-momentum in inertial frames, specifically addressing the implications of three-momentum conservation on the fourth component of four-momentum. The original poster presents a problem that involves demonstrating the conservation of the fourth component given the conservation of three-momentum, as well as exploring a theorem related to the conservation of components of four-vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to relate the time rate of change of three-momentum to the fourth component of four-momentum but expresses uncertainty about how to proceed. They also consider using the invariant scalar product as an alternative approach.
  • Some participants clarify the implications of the zero component theorem and its relevance to the conservation of four-momentum components.
  • Others question how to approach part a without invoking the zero component theorem, seeking further insights into the reasoning process.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants exploring different aspects of the problem. Some guidance has been provided regarding the implications of the zero component theorem, particularly in relation to part b. However, there remains a lack of consensus on how to tackle part a effectively, indicating ongoing exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of the problem while adhering to homework constraints, which may limit the information available for discussion. There is also a noted ambiguity regarding the phrasing of part b and its implications for the assumptions being made.

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Homework Statement



a) Suppose that the total three-momentum of an isolated system is conserved in all inertial frames. Show that if this is true (which it is), then the fourth component of the total four-momentum has to be conserved as well. b) Using the zero-component theorem you can prove the following stronger result very quickly: If anyone component of the total four-momentum is conserved in all frames, then all four components are conserved.



Homework Equations



Zero component theorem: If q is a four vector and one component of q is found to be zero in all inertial frames then all four components of q are zero in all frames.

The Attempt at a Solution



a) The total three momentum is P=\gamma_{1}m_{1}v_{1}+\gamma_{2}m_{2}v_{2}+...

The fourth component of the total four-momentum is

P_{4}=c(\gamma_{1}m_{1}+\gamma_{2}m_{2}+...)

My idea was to show that if the time rate of change of the three momentum is zero that this must somehow guarantee that the quantity in parentheses for the fourth component also has a time rate of change of zero.

The time rate of change of the total three momentum is (notice the dots above gamma and v they are hard to make out).

P^{.}=\gamma^{.}_{1}m_{1}v_{1}+gamma_{1}m_{1}v^{.}_{1}+\gamma^{.}_{2}m_{2}v_{2}+gamma_{2}m_{2}v^{.}_{2}+...=0

The time rate of change of the fourth component is

P^{.}_{4}=c(\gamma^{.}_{1}m_{1}+\gamma^{.}_{2}m_{2}+...)

I'm not seeing anything that allows me to proceed from this point.
As an alternative I thought I could use the invariant scalar product in some way, but it wasn't clear how this possible alternative approach would work out either.

b)
I guess I’m not really sure where to start with part b) except to show that the time rate of change of at least one of the components of the total four-momentum is zero in all frames. I’m not sure if the author is implying that this is given information because of the phrasing of the question. If we assume P^{.} to be zero then this seems very trivial because simply stating the zero component theorem is about enough to prove it!
 
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The derivative of a 4-vector with respect to proper time (a scalar) is also a 4-vector
 
I understand that, but I'm not clear on how that helps me.
 
If one component of a 4-vector is conserved, its derivative with respect to proper time is zero. By the zero component theorem, all the other components of the derivative must vanish as well which means the other components of the 4-vector are also conserved.
 
Ok that makes sense for part b. I thought you were referring to part a. Any thoughts about part a and how to show this without invoking this theorem? Thanks for your thoughts.
 

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