Considering enrolling in mechanics

[jtpope2]

I'm considering enrolling in mechanics (lagrange/hamilton etc.), and I've heard it's a very difficult course. In fact my advisor advised against me taking it since I have the prerequisites but not the "experience". I was hoping to get some feedback from people who have taken the course on just how hard it is or whether it's been hyped up. Do you think it's possible for me to get a B/A coming out of physics II (electromagnetism) if I work hard?

 

[Simon Bridge]

Welcome to PF;

Have a quick look at some classical mechanics (video) lectures online and see how you go. Include "lagrangian" in your search terms.

Should the subject interest you, then you should do it - but, off your advisor, you should strive to gain some experience with the kind of math and concepts involved before lectures start. You will need to work a lot harder than the others in the paper - though, it may turn out that you have a natural talent in the area. How did you do in year 1 mechanics?

 

[AJ Bentley]

Take a look at Prof. Susskind's lectures on YouTube. (Stanford U)

There's a Classical Mechanics lecture series for lay students that gives a solid grounding.

 

[Klungo]

I don't understand how "meets the prerequisites" and "not experienced enough" makes a good reason. What more experience is there beyond the general sequence and labs to do for intermediate mechanics? Unless they're recommending an intro math methods or something of the sort.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Your advisor, who knows you, knows your background, knows the course and knows the professor advises you not to take the course. So instead, you seek advice from strangers on the internet.

I think you should listen to your advisor.

 

[jtpope2]

Welcome to PF;

Have a quick look at some classical mechanics (video) lectures online and see how you go. Include "lagrangian" in your search terms.

Should the subject interest you, then you should do it - but, off your advisor, you should strive to gain some experience with the kind of math and concepts involved before lectures start. You will need to work a lot harder than the others in the paper - though, it may turn out that you have a natural talent in the area. How did you do in year 1 mechanics?

I've seen some of the videos, including the susskind lectures. Doesn't look too bad, but then again it might be another story when I'm actually doing it. I made an A in year 1 mechanics, with a couple near-perfect tests (99/97). I don't if that will translate to good performance in the hard core stuff though.

 

[jtpope2]

Your advisor, who knows you, knows your background, knows the course and knows the professor advises you not to take the course. So instead, you seek advice from strangers on the internet.

I think you should listen to your advisor.

My advisor didn't rule it out, he just warned me that it's a very hard course. I just want to get a sense of how difficult it is from actual student who have taken it; how many hours per week of study, average test grades etc. there's no reason to talk down to me.

 

[micromass]

My advisor didn't rule it out, he just warned me that it's a very hard course. I just want to get a sense of how difficult it is from actual student who have taken it; how many hours per week of study, average test grades etc. there's no reason to talk down to me.

Vanadium isn't talk down to you. He's giving you helpful advice. What he says is completely true: your advisor knows you better than strangers on the internet. So I would ask him for advice.

It's strange that you see helpful advice as talking down to you...

 

[jtpope2]

Vanadium isn't talk down to you. He's giving you helpful advice. What he says is completely true: your advisor knows you better than strangers on the internet. So I would ask him for advice.

It's strange that you see helpful advice as talking down to you...

OK, thanks for the help. But I think it's reasonable to ask strangers on the internet who have had experience with the course to give me an idea of what I'll be getting myself into should I decide to enroll.

 

[WannabeNewton]

OK, thanks for the help. But I think it's reasonable to ask strangers on the internet who have had experience with the course to give me an idea of what I'll be getting myself into should I decide to enroll.

It isn't really a well posed question to ask because the difficulty of the course can vary from university to university and lecturer to lecturer. Your adviser will know about the difficulty of the course at YOUR uni which strangers on the internet won't in general.

 

[Catria]

It was a really bewildering experience for me. Beyond that I can't tell you very much.

 

[bck]

First of all, it is not necessarily true that your advisor knows you at all. After my Bachelor I have only seen my advisor twice. I think the most important thing is (especially considering your results for the first mechanics course) that you find it interesting. And as WannabeNewton said, it depends a lot per university and lecturer.

Nevertheless, what I think you seek is experiences of others. In my opinion it was definitely a difficult course. I just start to comprehend it properly (about 4 years after the course). But if you are interested in it, I'm sure you'll manage (as long as you're prepared to put enough time in it too ;) ).

 

[Vanadium 50]

But I think it's reasonable to ask strangers on the internet who have had experience with the course to give me an idea of what I'll be getting myself into should I decide to enroll.

That would be true if they took the same course at the same university from the same professor, and ideally with your background.

 

[jtpope2]

That would be true if they took the same course at the same university from the same professor, and ideally with your background.

haha dude... if i were asking "which is harder diff eq or calc III?", which is the sort of thing i see a lot of here, nobody would say "talk to your advisor, i don't know your university or professor or blahblah", people would just give their opinions on what the courses are like generally and try to help the guy out. anyway, thanks for the input everyone. think I'm going to go for it.

 

[micromass]

haha dude... if i were asking "which is harder diff eq or calc III?", which is the sort of thing i see a lot of here, nobody would say "talk to your advisor, i don't know your university or professor or blahblah", people would just give their opinions on what the courses are like generally and try to help the guy out. anyway, thanks for the input everyone. think I'm going to go for it.

It's different. If you ask if diff eq or calc III is harder, then that usually has an objective answer. But the question here is if you are capable of performing well in the class. That is much more subjective.

Anyway, if you want good advice, then maybe you should post some more information such as the classes you have already taken and the grades you obtained, the contents of the mechanics course, the book that the mechanics course will be using, etc.

 

[jtpope2]

i think you guys just like to argue. I'm not asking for the exact answer to the precise question "how well will I do in MY mechanics class", obviously there's no possible way you could answer that. why would I ask such a question? my question is, in your experience of the course, do you think the difficulty of the class, in general, is such that a typical student coming out of lower tier classes might have a reasonable shot at doing well. it's really not that complicated, it's not a mechanics problem.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Hey, "dude",

Do whatever your want. You're a grown-up now and can make your own choices. The fact that you didn't get the answer you wanted here and are still pursuing it anyway indicates that you really didn't want advice. You wanted validation of a decision you had already made, and one that your advisor apparently disagreed with.

Good luck with that, "dude".

 

[Vanadium 50]

He doesn't want advice. He wants validation of a decision he has already made.

 

[jtpope2]

He doesn't want advice. He wants validation of a decision he has already made.

you didn't want to give me advice, you just wanted to criticize the fact that I'm even asking for advice. I'm already considering my advisor's opinion, who left the option open but warned me that it's very difficult. because the option was left open by my advisor, i thought it might be a good idea to get the opinion of other people who have experience with the course. i didn't think this was at all unreasonable.

 

[WannabeNewton]

i didn't think this was at all unreasonable.

It doesn't make ANY sense. How will my telling you if I think the intermediate mechanics class I'm taking now is easy or not at MY university help you assess if you will get an A or not at YOUR university? It makes no sense at all.

 

[jtpope2]

It doesn't make ANY sense. How will my telling you if I think the intermediate mechanics class I'm taking now is easy or not at MY university help you assess if you will get an A or not at YOUR university? It makes no sense at all.

i'm just about done arguing about this, some of you are being ridiculous. the courses are pretty standardized. no matter what university you go to or what professor you have, you're going to learn about lagrangians and hamiltonians and all the same methods.

 

[Simon Bridge]

I've seen some of the videos, including the susskind lectures. Doesn't look too bad, but then again it might be another story when I'm actually doing it. I made an A in year 1 mechanics, with a couple near-perfect tests (99/97). I don't if that will translate to good performance in the hard core stuff though.

I can only stand by the advise.

Please return to the first few replies - that is where people gave you honest and frank suggestions. In the end it is up to you. Nobody responsible will actually tell you what to do - only try to help you make the decision yourself.

Often that will sound argumentative or critical.
If you don't like that then the best advice is not to pursue a career in science: everybody is like that.

 

[jtpope2]

I can only stand by the advise.

Please return to the first few replies - that is where people gave you honest and frank suggestions. In the end it is up to you. Nobody responsible will actually tell you what to do - only try to help you make the decision yourself.

Often that will sound argumentative or critical.
If you don't like that then the best advice is not to pursue a career in science: everybody is like that.

i guess this is where the confusion came in. I'm not looking for advice at all, I'm just looking for people's personal experiences with the class and their opinions on what the difficulty is. I'm sorry if i offended anyone or took things the wrong way. perhaps i didn't phrase my question correctly and i saw members' objections to the question as uneccesarily argumentative.

 

[Vanadium 50]

the courses are pretty standardized.

Not as much as you think. (And remember, you haven't taken the class at even one place yet).

Mine included nothing on oscillations or on relativistic mechanics; those were taught in a different course. I had a summer student who took it elsewhere and his class was virtually only about oscillations and relativity. He didn't see Lagrangians until the last few weeks of the course and never saw a Hamiltonian.

 

[Simon Bridge]

i guess this is where the confusion came in. I'm not looking for advice at all, I'm just looking for people's personal experiences with the class and their opinions on what the difficulty is. I'm sorry if i offended anyone or took things the wrong way. perhaps i didn't phrase my question correctly and i saw members' objections to the question as uneccesarily argumentative.

It is easy to get the wrong end of the stick in text. The trick is to keep on asking questions and default to the assumption that people are well-meaning. You know the drill - if you really think someone is being argumentative for argument's sake: don't respond.

I doubt that my personal experiences with classical mechanics courses would help you much - this is based not just on my experiences as a student, but also as a student advisor, a teaching aide, tutor and a lecturer over many years. Other people's experiences are seldom helpful at this level ... after all, you are supposedly at the tail end of a training program designed to empower you to make these decisions in terms of your own knowledge and experience.

Vanadium 50 is being factual - not argumentative - the classical mechanics courses I've seen at the University of Auckland have started out with Lagrangians and not covered, for eg. Relativity - which, at this level, is GR and a whole paper to itself. Oscillatory motion is covered only indirectly and there are several papers covering different kinds in detail. Very much depends on the colleges research programs and what the prof is interested in. Looking over the different courses online should show you the variation. Hell I've known lecturers who teach this differently every year - same guy, same college, different content and approach each time.

One of the interesting things about a free/gratis service like this one is that you get to tell people what they need to know rather than what they want to know. If you were paying for the information, you'd get very different replies on the grounds that it's your dollar and when you discover how unhelpful the reply is you can always be charged for the helpful one.

You are getting solid, well-founded, advice.
I urge you to take it on board.
You won't do better.

 

[jtpope2]

Thanks simon and all of you, I'll take all of your advice seriously. once again i apologize if i offended any of you. looks like i was the one being uneccesarily argumentative.

 

[Nano-Passion]

You did very well in your Intro to Physics courses. Go for it man, you can definitely do it. If the classical mechanics class is harder, so what?? You just need to put in more time. I trust that you can pull off the A at the end of the course if you are willing to put in the work that is required.

However, if your not sure that you can put in the time required then you might have to reconsider in case it hurts your GPA.

I'm taking classical mechanics I right now, it is a bit different really. But just as you had to adjust when taking your first intro to physics course, so you will also have to adjust when taking this classical mechanics course. The problem solving required is a bit different, but the concepts are still relatively similar to your first intro to physics course.

As for my experience in classical mechanics, it is only as tough as you let it to be, meaning that it gets easier and easier as you put in more and more time.

Disclaimer: If you don't find yourself being a good problem solver, your going to not only have to put in the time to learn classical mechanics, but also to increase your problem solving capabilities as well as brushing up on the needed mathematics. So it isn't something to take lightly either.

 

[romsofia]

As others have said, it depends on university to university. The first test in my class was VERY different to the one my friend had.

An example from my test was: Given the Lennard-jones 6-12 potential function (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennard-Jones_potential) we were expected to graph it, find the min, and explain something about the oscillations (don't remember off the top of my head). Does this have anything to do with classical mechanics? No, but since he took maybe 20-40 minutes of a lecture one day to talk about, we were expected to know it.

This is why it would be hard for others to judge if you'd do "good" in a certain class.

However, to answer your question, Intermediate mechanics has a lot to do with calculus of variations and then applying that to physics problems, some examples include: Geodesics, path of least time, etc.

Good luck.

 

[andryd9]

Have you tried locating the syllabus for the class? At the very least, you should be able to find out which text is used in the class as a reference (or which books are considered classic in the field.) There should be some decent online lectures available as well, once you use the table of contents in the book to search topics. I would try to work this way on your own a bit, and if you can easily relate to the material, give it a shot. (This is what I do, BTW, and it usually gives an accurate projection of how you'd do dropped into the course. In any event, it is useful b/c it shows your weaknesses.) To be clear though- I suppose you should find the material "solvable", not just relateable:) A vague affinity may not translate into "A's".

 

[mege]

I'm considering enrolling in mechanics (lagrange/hamilton etc.), and I've heard it's a very difficult course. In fact my advisor advised against me taking it since I have the prerequisites but not the "experience". I was hoping to get some feedback from people who have taken the course on just how hard it is or whether it's been hyped up. Do you think it's possible for me to get a B/A coming out of physics II (electromagnetism) if I work hard?

I highly suggest being fully prepared for Mechanics. If your adviser thinks that you are ill-prepared - he's probably right.

My school situation is unique and I took Mechanics a little out of sequence. My recall of the specifics is not always the best compared to other top students because I spent so much time learning 'background' to solve the problems. I ended up near the top of the class, still, but it was an extreme amount of work (12-20hr/week of homework, not counting reading, for the 3 credit class?). Unless you have a significant amount of time to dedicate I do not suggest taking it without full preparation. Talking with other students about a year ahead of me, I think it will end up being the most time-consuming class I have taken as an undergraduate physicist. Granted, I was a little under prepared compared to most of my class, but many of them struggled just as much because they had the preparation on paper only (they hadn't really absorbed their previous classes properly IMO). The problems are not easy so being well versed in various ways to solve problems is important - that problem solving maturity only comes by taking more physics classes.

In general: I would suggest having completed an Intro to Modern Physics class as well. Fully understanding potential energy is paramount to fully understanding much of mechanics (which IMO you don't get until you start studying atomic physics).

On the bright side: I (easily) aced my Intro to Modern Physics class because of all the extra preparation I did during Mechanics.