Constructing Atlases: Understanding Topology for GR Class

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the construction of atlases and charts in the context of topology, particularly as it relates to understanding manifolds for a general relativity class. Participants explore the mathematical foundations and examples, such as the two torus and the sphere, while seeking clarity on the concepts involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks help in understanding how to construct atlases and charts for a general relativity class, indicating a foundational understanding but a need for deeper mathematical insight.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of map projections as a mathematical tool for transforming surfaces, suggesting a connection to the discussion on atlases.
  • A participant mentions the two torus as a specific example, referencing a problem from their textbook that involves proving the two torus is a manifold by constructing an atlas, noting that it need not be maximal.
  • There is a question about how the torus is defined mathematically, indicating a potential gap in understanding among participants.
  • One participant clarifies that an atlas consists of a collection of "discs" covering a surface, with mappings to ordinary discs in the plane, providing examples with the sphere and torus.
  • Another participant suggests that a torus can be visualized as a rectangle with identifications, proposing that it can be covered with four rectangles, while also discussing the concept of overlapping paper discs to form a surface.
  • A later reply proposes that an atlas for a torus can be constructed using atlases for each component of the torus, referencing the product of manifolds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and approaches to constructing atlases, with no clear consensus on the best method or definition of the torus. Multiple competing views and interpretations remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about definitions and mathematical steps involved in constructing atlases, particularly regarding the torus and its representation. The discussion reflects a range of familiarity with the concepts, leading to different interpretations and approaches.

black_hole
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I'm trying to get a better understanding of some topology for a GR class I'm taking...I'm wondering if someone can help me understand how to go about constructing atlases or just charts in general. I understand the concept but I am trying to get a better handle on the math.
 
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Well, that's a pretty broad topic. What do you know about map projections?
 
Not a lot...It might help me to see simple examples like the two torus or a sphere...
 
Well, I don't know of anyone who has constructed an atlas on a torus.

However, map projections are mathematical tools which transform the surface of a sphere to a flat, two-dimensional representation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection
 
Well, the reason I bring up the two torus is because one of the sample problems in the book I'm using is to "prove that the two torus is a manifold by explicitly constructing an appropriate atlas." Well, I did fail to mention it need not be a maximal one.
 
So, how did you define the torus in the first place?
 
What do you mean (x^2+y^2+z^2 + R^2 - r^2)^2 = 4R^2(x^2+y^2). Sorry, I'm quite a novice
 
black_hole said:
Well, the reason I bring up the two torus is because one of the sample problems in the book I'm using is to "prove that the two torus is a manifold by explicitly constructing an appropriate atlas." Well, I did fail to mention it need not be a maximal one.

'Atlas' must mean something else in this context. I assumed you were talking in the OP about a book of maps.
 
an atlas (on a surface) is a collection of "discs" that cover the space. plus maps from each disc to an ordinary disc in the plane. so just look at a sphere and try to cover it with distorted discs or rectangles, or a torus.

it id pretty easy to see that a sphere can be covered by two discs, one covering a little more than the northern hemisphere, and one covering a little more than the southern hemisphere. It will take me a little visualizing to think of how many rectangles it takes to cover a torus. One clue is to picture a torus as a rectangle with identifications. then it seem you can easily cover it with 4 rectangles, but i am a little "sleepy".

i.e. a torus is a union of two cylinders and each cylinder is a union of 2 rectangles, isn't it?

or just take a handful of paper discs and try to overlap them and form a surface. imagine what you could obtain.
 
  • #10
You can construct an atlas for a torus S1 x S1 by using atlases for each of the S1 s. If M,N are manifolds, so is MxN.
 

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