Convergence of Sequence x_n = (1/2)(x_n + 2/x_n)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the convergence of sequences defined by specific recursive formulas, particularly focusing on the sequence defined by \( x_n = \sqrt{2x_{n-1}} \) and another sequence defined by \( x_{n+1} = \frac{1}{2}(x_n + \frac{2}{x_n}) \). Participants explore the limits of these sequences, their properties, and potential proofs of convergence.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the sequence \( \sqrt{2}, \sqrt{2\sqrt{2}}, \sqrt{2\sqrt{2\sqrt{2}}}, \ldots \) converges to a real number.
  • Another participant suggests a less rigorous approach to show that the sequence converges to 2, proposing a pattern in the terms and using logarithmic properties to derive the limit.
  • A participant mentions the monotone convergence theorem as a formal proof method, stating that a monotone sequence has a limit if it is bounded.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the proofs related to the monotone convergence theorem and requests further elaboration.
  • A new question is introduced regarding the sequence defined by \( x_{n+1} = \frac{1}{2}(x_n + \frac{2}{x_n}) \), where the participant attempts to prove that \( x_n^2 > 2 \) using cases based on assumptions about \( x_n \).
  • The participant's proof approach is described as convoluted and uncertain, indicating a struggle with clarity and rigor in their reasoning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the rigor of proofs and the methods used to demonstrate convergence. While some propose informal approaches, others advocate for formal proofs, leading to an unresolved discussion on the best way to approach the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the monotone convergence theorem and Cauchy condensation, indicating that their proofs may depend on these concepts. There is also mention of potential limitations in the clarity and rigor of the proposed proofs.

linuxux
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Hello, I have a question i can figure out.

THE QUESTION:

Show that

[tex]\sqrt{2}, \sqrt{2\sqrt{2}}, \sqrt{2\sqrt{2\sqrt{2}}}, ...[/tex]

converges and find the limit.From what I see, the first term is root 2, the second term will be the root of 2 times the first term making it larger than the first term, the third term will be the root of 2 times the second term making it larger than the second term.

How can this converge to a real number?
 
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A formal proof would involve showing that the sequence [tex]x_n= \sqrt{2x_{n-1}} , x_1= \sqrt{2}[/tex] is strictly increasing and is bounded by a certain value, but really that's boring isn't it?

Heres a less rigorous but more fun way :)

Lets take some terms in the sequence and solve for 2 (Not that hard, just square both sides and divide both sides by 2 until the RHS is prepared :) :

[tex]x_1^2 = 2[/tex]
[tex]\frac{ x_2^4}{4} = 2[/tex]
[tex]\frac{ x_3^8}{64} = 2[/tex]

Ooo i Think i see a pattern :) Write the Denominators on the LHS as a power of 2, and take them over to the RHS :)

[tex]x_3^8 = 2^7[/tex]

We can see in general :
[tex]x_n^{2^n} = 2^{2^n -1}[/tex]

So using this for the 5th term,
[tex]x_5^{32} = 2^{31}[/tex], which I've checked is true.

Now, Take the log base 2 of the general form and use the following log rule, where b can be any base: [itex]\log_b y^k = k \log_b y[/itex].

So we have: [tex]2^n \log_2 x_n = 2^n -1[/tex], dividing both sides by [itex]2^n[/tex] and then making both sides the exponents of 2 finally gives us:<br /> <br /> [tex]x_n = 2^{ \frac{2^n -1}{2^n}}[/tex].<br /> <br /> So now, take the limit as n approaches infinity, the exponent on the RHS becomes 1. ie<br /> [tex]\lim_{n\to \infty} x_n = 2[/tex].<br /> <br /> Very nice?[/itex]
 
Gib Z said:
A formal proof would involve showing that the sequence [tex]x_n= \sqrt{2x_{n-1}} , x_1= \sqrt{2}[/tex] is strictly increasing and is bounded by a certain value, but really that's boring isn't it?

Heres a less rigorous but more fun way :)

Lets take some terms in the sequence and solve for 2 (Not that hard, just square both sides and divide both sides by 2 until the RHS is prepared :) :

[tex]x_1^2 = 2[/tex]
[tex]\frac{ x_2^4}{4} = 2[/tex]
[tex]\frac{ x_3^8}{64} = 2[/tex]

Ooo i Think i see a pattern :) Write the Denominators on the LHS as a power of 2, and take them over to the RHS :)

[tex]x_3^8 = 2^7[/tex]

We can see in general :
[tex]x_n^{2^n} = 2^{2^n -1}[/tex]

So using this for the 5th term,
[tex]x_5^{32} = 2^{31}[/tex], which I've checked is true.

Now, Take the log base 2 of the general form and use the following log rule, where b can be any base: [itex]\log_b y^k = k \log_b y[/itex].

So we have: [tex]2^n \log_2 x_n = 2^n -1[/tex], dividing both sides by [itex]2^n[/tex] and then making both sides the exponents of 2 finally gives us:<br /> <br /> [tex]x_n = 2^{ \frac{2^n -1}{2^n}}[/tex].<br /> <br /> So now, take the limit as n approaches infinity, the exponent on the RHS becomes 1. ie<br /> [tex]\lim_{n\to \infty} x_n = 2[/tex].<br /> <br /> Very nice?[/itex]
[itex] <br /> <br /> Sir, thank you.[/itex]
 
No, thank YOU, I think that's the first time I've ever been called sir :D
 
The monotone convergence theorem is the formal proof I mentioned you could do in my original post, Wikipedia states: If a_k is a monotone sequence of real numbers (e.g., if a_k ≤ a_{k+1},) then this sequence has a limit (if we admit plus and minus infinity as possible limits.) The limit is finite if and only if the sequence is bounded. I don't know why or how they could implement summation into it. Please post the proofs if the book included them.

Edit: It seems you deleted your last post, making me look like a crackpot talking to myself lol
 
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Gib Z said:
Please post the proofs if the book included them.
No, no proof. the previous ones i did all utilized summation and that was the only technique they showed, but I'll tinker with it until tomorrow if i can't get it I'll surely post.
Gib Z said:
Edit: It seems you deleted your last post, making me look like a crackpot talking to myself lol

Just trying to keep you on your toes.

;)
 
Last edited:
Another Question

I have another question for you.

I have a sequence defined by:

[tex]x_1=2[/tex]

[tex]x_{n+1}=\frac{1}{2}(x_n + \frac{2}{x_n})[/tex]

and i have to show that

[tex]x^2_n[/tex]

is always greater than 2.The only thing i can come up is this; I end up using two cases (its convoluted, its confusing, i don't even know if it qualifies as a proof, i don't know if its the best proof if it is a proof, but anyway) :

i have to show that:

[tex]x^2_n > 2[/tex] which is equivalent to [tex]x_n > \sqrt{2}[/tex]we assume

[tex]x_n > \sqrt{2}[/tex].

we know

2 > [tex]\sqrt{2}[/tex].the expression

[tex]x_n + 2[/tex]

has two numbers > [tex]\sqrt{2}[/tex].when we add 2 to [tex]x_n[/tex] the result will either be a number twice as great as [tex]\sqrt{2}[/tex] or not.case 1:
suppose adding 2 to [tex]x_n[/tex] does produce a number twice as great as [tex]\sqrt{2}[/tex].

we know

[tex]x^2_n > x_n > \sqrt{2}[/tex]

so

[tex]\frac{x^2_n}{x_n} > \sqrt{2}[/tex].

but if

[tex]\frac{x^2_n}{2x_n} < \sqrt{2}[/tex]

then

[tex]\frac{x^2_n + 2}{2x_n} > \sqrt{2}[/tex]case 2:
suppose adding 2 to [tex]x_n[/tex] does not produce a number twice as great as [tex]\sqrt{2}[/tex].

then we know [tex]x^2_n[/tex] is a number at least 4 times greater than [tex]\sqrt{2}[/tex].

so

[tex]\frac{x^2_n}{2x_n}[/tex] is still greater than [tex]\sqrt{2}[/tex].does that work as a proof?

(by the way, I've still only been given Monotone Convergence and Cauchy Condensation to use to prove.)
 
Last edited:

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