Could ancient civilizations have existed before those we know of?

[Dotini]

Continuing briefly along the topic of ancient mining, I feel we would be remiss not to mention the ancient copper mines at Isle Royale, Lake Superior, Michigan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_Royale
In prehistoric times, large quantities of copper were mined on Isle Royale and the nearby Keweenaw Peninsula. The region is scarred by ancient mine pits and trenches up to 20 feet deep. Carbon-14 testing of wood remains found in sockets of copper artifacts indicates that they are at least 5700 years old. In Prehistoric Copper Mining in the Lake Superior Region, published in 1961, Drier and Du Temple estimated that over 1.5 billion pounds of copper had been mined from the region. However, David Johnson and Susan Martin contend that their estimate was based on exaggerated and inaccurate assumptions.[7][8]

As an archeologically-minded tourist, I have visited native American archeological sites, museums and tribal centers located in many states spread all across the continent. It is very, very rare that raw specimens, tools or other artifacts of copper are found in native American burials or collections of any kind known to me. So I feel it is a good question to ask just exactly what became of the copper mined from Isle Royale so many thousands of years ago, and why was it mined so energetically?

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[WhoWee]

Continuing briefly along the topic of ancient mining, I feel we would be remiss not to mention the ancient copper mines at Isle Royale, Lake Superior, Michigan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_Royale
In prehistoric times, large quantities of copper were mined on Isle Royale and the nearby Keweenaw Peninsula. The region is scarred by ancient mine pits and trenches up to 20 feet deep. Carbon-14 testing of wood remains found in sockets of copper artifacts indicates that they are at least 5700 years old. In Prehistoric Copper Mining in the Lake Superior Region, published in 1961, Drier and Du Temple estimated that over 1.5 billion pounds of copper had been mined from the region. However, David Johnson and Susan Martin contend that their estimate was based on exaggerated and inaccurate assumptions.[7][8]

As an archeologically-minded tourist, I have visited native American archeological sites, museums and tribal centers located in many states spread all across the continent. It is very, very rare that raw specimens, tools or other artifacts of copper are found in native American burials or collections of any kind known to me. So I feel it is a good question to ask just exactly what became of the copper mined from Isle Royale so many thousands of years ago, and why was it mined so energetically?

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

That is a very good question - even if the 1.5 billion pounds was over-estimated. I'll assume the quantities not buried were considered to be re-cycled?

 

[r8chard]

The reason copper was mined around the world was it's abundance, the ease of separating it from clinker, it needs a (relatively) low temperature (think how much labor was involved in making charcoal) to be workable, by itself copper shines up real pretty and is very malleable.
If you combine it with tin, you produce durable bronze that not only polishes up nice and shiny but will hold a vicious edge.

The customers for these products were the priest/kings for their symbolic torcs and weapons for their violently quarrelsome sons. Copper and tin and bronze were traded over hundreds, even thousands of miles, at least since the end of the last big Ice Age, around the world.

 

[Dotini]

Seductive and interesting comments, r8chard.

I, and probably others, would encourage you to submit a citation or two, particularly concerning multi-thousand mile trading of copper and tin in the prehistoric world!

Very respectfully,
Steve

 

[r8chard]

Hey Steve, I'll see what I can pull up and get it posted.

But analysis of material composition can pinpoint the original location
of the raw materials. That's how it can be reasonably be determined
that trade items originated at specific geographical areas.

Think of wine "terroir".

When people consider outrageous reasons for evident coincidences
between widely separated societies, they overlook two obvious
causes. First, young men wandering to find unrelated females, and hey,
while your at it, bring along some trade goods, to display your value
as a mate. And second, your available technology limits everyone to
duplicating similar patterns of culture, lifestyle and construction.

 

[dimensionless]

It's also quite possible there were older civilizations in South America - where the jungles have masked the terrain.
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~kjvaughn/vaughn%20et%20al%20mina%20primavera.pdf

I believe that this has happened with some Indian archaeological sites. Also the weather in places like Egypt is probably more suitable for preserving things, and in other words, would erode much faster in England.

 

[Evo]

It's also quite possible there were older civilizations in South America - where the jungles have masked the terrain.
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~kjvaughn/vaughn%20et%20al%20mina%20primavera.pdf

Not that old though. I don't believe that there are any really old confirmed (uncontested) sites in South America. For example your link is about a 2,000 year old site.

 

[WhoWee]

Not that old though. I don't believe that there are any really old confirmed (uncontested) sites in South America. For example your link is about a 2,000 year old site.

This one in Chile was older.
http://www.thisischile.cl/Articles.aspx?id=5818&sec=419&itz&eje&idioma=2&t=discovery-of-oldest-mine-in-chile-changes-views-of-archaic-societies

 

[Evo]

This one in Chile was older.
http://www.thisischile.cl/Articles.aspx?id=5818&sec=419&itz&eje&idioma=2&t=discovery-of-oldest-mine-in-chile-changes-views-of-archaic-societies

The findings have now been confirmed by U.S. archaeology magazine, Current Archaeology, which definitively established that the mine is the oldest ever discovered in the Americas.

The US magazine doesn't exist. It's not listed in our list of journals either. I did find that there is a Current Archaeology magazine in the UK, but it only covers archaeology in Britain. Sorry, the article appears to be bogus.