COVID Could COVID Travel from Car Trunk into Main Car Area from Drive-Up?

[kyphysics]

Here's a dumb question, but asked in seriousness:

If a particle of COVID is sitting on the ground and I step on it with my shoes, does that kill it? Would the physical pressure of my shoe and whole body weight pressed on top of it sort of "squash" the virus to death (literally)?

 

[Keith_McClary]

"squash" the virus

Mechanical Disassembly of Single Virus Particles Reveals Kinetic Intermediates Predicted by Theory

Then, a series of high-force (∼1-nN) indentations were carried out on the selected particle.

 

[DaveC426913]

Here's a dumb question, but asked in seriousness:

If a particle of COVID is sitting on the ground and I step on it with my shoes, does that kill it? Would the physical pressure of my shoe and whole body weight pressed on top of it sort of "squash" the virus to death (literally)?

No. Have you ever tried to squish one of those tiny ants? It's impossible. They have the pseudo-magical ability to always be in a crack of the floor or of your sole.

 

[kyphysics]

No. Have you ever tried to squish one of those tiny ants? It's impossible. They have the pseudo-magical ability to always be in a crack of the floor or of your sole.

Oddly, I have more trouble squishing roaches than ants.

On another COVID safety topic:

If you use Chlorox or alcohol wipes on groceries that are packaged, do the chemical "break down" the barriers/materials of the packaging and seep into the product? I usually use alcohol wipes and tend to think this doesn't happen. Then, when switching to chlorox/bleach wipes, it feels like the bleach is more powerful and maybe slightly degrades the wrapping (say, a bag of chips). Could just be my imagination. But, still wondering.

Is it safe to use bleach wipes (on outer packaging) on grocery products you have to eat later?

 

[mcastillo356]

Is it safe to use bleach wipes (on outer packaging) on grocery products you have to eat later?

Hi,kiphysics! In my opinion you have to check before if the package is absorbent; if it soaks up.
Greetings!

 

[kyphysics]

Hi,kiphysics! In my opinion you have to check before if the package is absorbent; if it soaks up.
Greetings!

That makes sense. Although, when you're checking the first time, it could damage the package. For example, if I have a bag of potato chips and use my Chlorox bleach wipe on it to test it, then the very first time I wipe it could degrade the package if it's not meant to be used on it. Then, I'd have to throw away my potato chips, as the bleach could have leaked onto them. What if I have a lot of food packages like that? I would have to throw them away, right?

Thanks, by the way, for always being super polite! I've noticed that and it gives me a smile.

 

[kyphysics]

New Question:
What if I leave my food in trunk from the grocery store for 3 days and the temperature outside gets very cold at night and then warmer in the day to produce a wide temperature range.

For example, let's say it gets to 33 degrees at night, but during the day when the sun is out, it's 65 degrees. Would that damage my food?

 

[Keith_McClary]

For example, let's say it gets to 33 degrees at night, but during the day when the sun is out, it's 65 degrees. Would that damage my food?

Is it raw seafood or poultry?

 

[kyphysics]

Is it raw seafood or poultry?

Ah, no. I'm thinking of stuff that is not raw and doesn't need refrigeration (as is - of course, some items say to refrigerate after opening, but these would still be closed at that point).

I'm thinking of canned soup, canned nacho cheese (...or any dairy products really), and maybe some canned fruits & veggies (e.g., corn, fruit cocktail, etc.). Assume, though, the canned soups include some meat (such as gumbo soup with meatballs).

Would leaving them in the trunk and shifting through, say 30 degrees and then 65 degrees ...back and forth, back and forth over 3 days ruin the food in any way?

And, what about cleaning products like bleach and rubbing alcohol? Would that get messed up chemically and explode or something? lol *I'm serious about this, despite the laugh.*

 

[DaveC426913]

The cold could ruin certain types of food such as soft fruits.
Some foods could spoil at 65 degrees.
Note that the temp in your car could exceed outside temp if it's in the sun.
Your canned products should all be fine.

I have found that circa-freezing temps are not really enough to explode pop (soda) cans. But they will explode (rather spectacularly, I might add) if temps drop down below -10C (0F).

And, what about cleaning products like bleach and rubbing alcohol? Would that get messed up chemically and explode or something?

No.
If your cleaning products rupture below freezing then it's because water is their primary ingredient.

 

[DaveC426913]

... if I have a bag of potato chips and use my Chlorox bleach wipe on it to test it, then the very first time I wipe it could degrade the package if it's not meant to be used on it. Then, I'd have to throw away my potato chips, as the bleach could have leaked onto them.

• Test a flap of the bag, one not exposed to the chips.
• It's not going to "leak" into your chips unless you really overdo it. It's not a solvent.
• The bleach wipes are also not toxic to that degree. After all, you use your hands to wipe with them, and you put your hands in your mouth.

What if I have a lot of food packages like that? I would have to throw them away, right?

You're not going to test every single one are you?
Worst case, you can sacrifice one bag to do experiments on and keep the rest.

 

[mfb]

Out of curiosity, if "exhaust path" didn't exist, what would happen? Would the car explode or something?

Things are not airtight to the level that you could build up relevant pressure differences, unless they are explicitly designed for it (cans, bottles, ...). Even if you keep all obvious openings closed you still get some air flow - in a car, in a house, and basically everywhere else.

What if I have a lot of food packages like that? I would have to throw them away, right?

Empty the container (e.g. by eating the content, but it's up to you), then test whatever you want to test.

 

[kyphysics]

^^^yes, yes

All good points/recommendations by you guys. COVID isolation has probably lowered my already low IQ by 10-fold.

 

[DaveC426913]

^^^yes, yes

All good points/recommendations by you guys. COVID isolation has probably lowered my already low IQ by 10-fold.

Don't beat yourself up.
A lesser known effect of isolation: the stagnation of creative thinking and idea cross-pollination.

 

[Keith_McClary]

the stagnation of creative thinking and idea cross-pollination.

But, we spend all our time having intelligent discussions on the Web!

 

[kyphysics]

But, we spend all our time having intelligent discussions on the Web!

There's still some weird effects of less in-person interaction, though.

Just don't feel "right." It probably affects lower IQ people like myself a lot more too.

 

[kyphysics]

No.
If your cleaning products rupture below freezing then it's because water is their primary ingredient.

So, I bought bleach (along with canned groceries) and it's in my trunk. I can open it today (after 2 days) or Monday (3 days). My local temperatures have been great. Nothing approaching freezing. However, it could breach freezing temperatures tonight/Mon. morning as it will get suddenly/dramatically cold.

So, if bleach doesn't physically explode (if that is what you meant by "rupture") below freezing, would it by chance lose its chemical properties (as in, it's now less effective or not effective at all after it's been frozen)?

eta: I wasn't sure if "rupture" encompassed that part or not, but if, yes, sorry for asking again.

 

[Keith_McClary]

So, if bleach doesn't physically explode (if that is what you meant by "rupture") below freezing

Its just that water expands 10% when it freezes. Have you never put (bottled or canned) beverages in the freezer to quick chill and then forgotten to remove them before they froze? (It's messy.)

 

[DaveC426913]

Bleach is kept in flexible containers, not cans.

 

[russ_watters]

My local temperatures have been great. Nothing approaching freezing. However, it could breach freezing temperatures tonight/Mon. morning as it will get suddenly/dramatically cold.

Freezing temperature of what?

 

[kyphysics]

Freezing temperature of what?

water...this is a good question, as I see bleach freezes at 19F

We won't hit that (not even close), but I do wonder if the chemical properties of bleach sort of diminish from just being in the 30'sF?

 

[Keith_McClary]

bleach freezes at 19F

That's -7C. It's colder than that here. I will do the experiment if someone will volunteer to clean up the mess!

 

[russ_watters]

water...this is a good question, as I see bleach freezes at 19F

Yep. Love google.

We won't hit that (not even close), but I do wonder if the chemical properties of bleach sort of diminish from just being in the 30'sF?

No, it doesn't work that way. As a solution it freezes at 19F, period. That means nothing happens at 32F.

 

[mfb]

Freezing is not the only thing that can happen to a liquid. I don't know what could happen in bleach, but just pointing out that it doesn't freeze doesn't mean anything.

As an example, eggs don't boil (or freeze) when you cook them, but clearly they change their state. More generally, you can get chemical reactions (rare when cooling down something), mixtures of substances can un-mix above/below certain temperatures and so on.

 

[hutchphd]

For @kyphysics: I am pleased to meet someone more meticulous about COVID -19 than I am. Keep up the good work. Few thoughts

1. This virus has a lipid layer that hates detergents. For sealed food a good wash in detergent water is probably the safest and least toxic solution.
2. Chlorox is very corrosive to metals so be careful where you use it. Alcohol is less so. High proof ethanol for food items and isopropanol for other stuff is what I use where (1) not advisable
3. I have a bunch of cheap cotton gloves (for doing optics) that I use once and carefully throw in the laundry. Keeps you from scratching your nose or rubbing your eyes. I hate rubber gloves
4. Now wash your hands again

As astronaut Wally Schirra used to advise: maintain an even strain

.

 

[kyphysics]

Freezing is not the only thing that can happen to a liquid. I don't know what could happen in bleach, but just pointing out that it doesn't freeze doesn't mean anything.

As an example, eggs don't boil (or freeze) when you cook them, but clearly they change their state. More generally, you can get chemical reactions (rare when cooling down something), mixtures of substances can un-mix above/below certain temperatures and so on.

That's a good point. Thanks for the re:. I do wonder if leaving my shower spray bleach in the garage for a few days during the summer's 90-100 degree heat affected them? The garage is shaded, so they weren't getting the worst of that heat, but I noticed a lack of bleach smell when spraying them later.

I threw them out. I've since bought the same sprays and stored them in cooler temps and have noticed the normal bleach smell. I theorize the heat someone messed with the chemical make-up for the cleaners...but hard to prove for sure without lab analysis.

 

[kyphysics]

For @kyphysics: I am pleased to meet someone more meticulous about COVID -19 than I am.

Thanks. I did not go into the virus pandemic expecting to be this way. It evolved naturally after a family member died from COVID. Others also were infected and had moderate symptoms. So, I took it very seriously to a practically paranoid level. I admit that I'm on the extreme careful side. It's hard for me to turn that off in my brain.

Thankfully, we have two great vaccines and I look forward to the day I can relax and maybe go back to normal.

On a semi-related note, it's be said that many in Asia continued to wear masks post-SARS for both pollution and germ protection. It became a norm for many. I wonder if this will be true for some in the U.S. post-COVID? I know for me, it will take some reprogramming of the brain to relax.

 

[DaveC426913]

...but I noticed a lack of bleach smell when spraying them later.

I threw them out. I've since bought the same sprays and stored them in cooler temps and have noticed the normal bleach smell. I theorize the heat someone messed with the chemical make-up for the cleaners...but hard to prove for sure without lab analysis.

Yes. Bleach will degrade after a while, especially if exposed to sunlight.

Still, I really think you are way, way overthinking/doing this (unless this is an academic exercise in analysis).

The effectiveness of the bleach in disinfecting your materials is way, way faster than the time it takes for the bleach to decay. It takes on the order of minutes to disinfect. It takes on the order of days for bleach to degrade, and by that time it's long since done its work.

 

[hutchphd]

Thankfully, we have two great vaccines and I look forward to the day I can relax and maybe go back to normal.

Amen to that. Thankfully I have not had your level of personal tragedy.
I live a relatively solitary existence and decided early on (actually when the APS meeting was canceled last March) that I would maintain a high level of awareness. I have modulated it slightly along the way as dictated (better masks and a little less concern about surfaces) but I strive for a uniformly low exposure risk. And being over 65 it is my hope to get vaccine ~two months or less. Nice work by those folks. Stay safe.