Could dark matter be regular matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of dark matter and whether it could be composed of regular matter that is not easily detectable. Participants explore theoretical implications, observational evidence, and definitions related to dark matter and regular matter.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that dark matter might simply be regular matter that is not well illuminated, questioning the visibility of such matter in the cosmos.
  • Others argue against this idea, citing Big Bang Nucleosynthesis (BBN) and cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation as evidence that limits the amount of ordinary matter in the universe, suggesting that dark matter cannot be made up of ordinary atoms.
  • One participant highlights that if dark matter were regular matter, it should be visible due to electromagnetic radiation, yet it remains undetectable, indicating a discrepancy.
  • Another participant discusses methods of measuring dark matter, such as gravitational lensing, and notes that the observed distribution of dark matter does not align with the characteristics of ordinary baryonic matter, suggesting that dark matter is not primarily composed of regular matter.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential underestimation of ordinary matter, but the overall evidence from gravitational lensing and direct detection experiments seems to rule out the possibility of dark matter being mostly ordinary matter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the nature of dark matter, with some supporting the idea that it could be regular matter while others provide evidence suggesting it cannot be. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference observational limits and theoretical frameworks, such as BBN and gravitational lensing, but do not reach a consensus on the definitions or implications of "regular matter." The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainties in the understanding of dark matter.

kolleamm
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What if dark matter is just regular matter that's not very well lit up? What do you think?
 
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No. Big Bang Nucleosynthesis (BBN) places very stringent limits on the amount of ordinary matter (baryons) in the universe. If all of the dark matter were made up of ordinary atoms, there would have been many more heavy nuclei created during the big bang than we see. The cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation also places limits on the amount of baryonic matter in the universe. Bottom line - it is very clear that the dark matter is not made up of ordinary atoms.
 
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The problem is that if dark matter is really just regular matter, it should be lit up. With all the EM radiation shooting through the cosmos we should be able to see it if it were just regular matter. But we can't see it. So something is up.
 
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kolleamm said:
What if dark matter is just regular matter that's not very well lit up? What do you think?

Define "regular matter".

Zz.
 
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ZapperZ said:
Define "regular matter".

Matter that isn't dark, of course!
 
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kolleamm said:
What if dark matter is just regular matter that's not very well lit up? What do you think?

There are a variety of ways that we measure the amount of dark matter that is out there. One is to use gravitational lensing to estimate the mass of an entire galaxy or galactic cluster, and then to estimate ordinary matter based upon the luminosity of the visible stars which astronomy observations lead us to infer constitute the vast majority of baryonic matter, and then to adjust slightly for non-luminous sources of ordinary matter like neutrinos, interstellar gas, planets, stellar black holes, MACHOs etc.

The disparity is too great to be accounted for with ordinary baryonic matter. It isn't implausible that are best estimate of ordinary matter is a bit low and misses some of the non-luminous part of ordinary matter. But, the amount of dark matter observed through gravitational lensing and the apparent spatial distribution of the dark matter rule out the possibility that is is mostly ordinary matter. Dark matter is arranged in space in a manner that is too clumpy to be neutrinos (a.k.a. "hot dark matter") and that is not clumpy enough to be ordinary baryonic matter.

Also, because we can estimate the mass of dark matter per volume in our part of the Milky Way to better than an order of magnitude based upon the dynamics of the Milky Way' visible matter, we know that if dark matter were ordinary matter that we could have detected it in direct dark matter detection experiments. But, the null detection in those experiments rules out that possibility.
 

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