Could Expansion Explain Gravity Mathematically?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter amaruq
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Expansion
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the possibility of mathematically relating gravity to the expansion of the universe, questioning whether the acceleration of particles moving away from each other could explain gravitational effects. Participants examine theoretical frameworks and mathematical derivations related to this concept.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that gravity could be explained by the expansion of the universe, likening it to the sensation of being pushed back into a seat during acceleration.
  • Another participant posits that for gravity to be explained by expansion, the Earth would need to expand rapidly while the Moon expands at a different rate, leading to observable effects.
  • A participant references the general relativity perspective, stating that gravity can be viewed as an effect of the acceleration of the Earth's surface, achieved through the curvature of space and time.
  • Concerns are raised about the concept of acceleration without relative motion, prompting a discussion on how acceleration can be defined operationally and theoretically.
  • A participant provides a mathematical derivation related to the inertial reaction of matter to the universe's acceleration, referencing Hubble's law and its implications for gravitational acceleration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between expansion and gravity, with some supporting the idea while others challenge the definitions and implications of acceleration without motion. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the nature of acceleration and the mathematical derivations presented, which depend on specific definitions and theoretical frameworks that are not universally accepted.

amaruq
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
Could somebody show me mathematically why/why not gravity could/couldn't directly be caused by expansion -everything pulling/moving away from each other? When you are in a car, and you are accelerating, your body wants to stay where it was a moment before... Thus your head gets thrown back into the seat until you stop accelerating... Is this why we have gravity? Say a planets particles are moving away from each other, and that this is happening at an ever increasing rate... Is that why we have "gravity"? I wouldn't mind seeing it mathematically.

PS this time i am NOT posing a theory... I am just asking to see this mathematically. ;)
 
Last edited:
Space news on Phys.org
Hi amaruq! :smile:

Well, yes it could, but the Earth would have to be expanding really fast for that to work, while the Moon would have to be expanding less fast …

so we'd notice that the Moon was getting smaller! :wink:
 
Thank you for going easy on me lol
 
Ok, the Earth obviously isn't exploding. But it's in fact the GR viewpoint that the surface of the Earth is accelerating, and that gravity is the effect of that acceleration. This is realized by curving space and time appropriately, so that there is acceleration without relative motion.
 
Ich said:
… there is acceleration without relative motion.

That doesn't make any sense …

how can we define acceleration without motion? :confused:
 
how can we define acceleration without motion?
Operationally, by using an accelerometer (e.g. force or displacement of a test mass). Theoretically, by defining a suitable "proper acceleration", i.e. the covariant derivative of the world line (not sure about the wording).
 
You can derive the inertial reaction of local matter to the acceleration of the universe (best estimates based upon a c velocity recession at the putative Hubble sphere of radius R and a flat universe, yields the isotropic acceleration is (c^2)/R (Smolin). With a little manipulation, G turns out to be (Hc/4(pi))(meters^2)/kgm

There have been several derivations on these boards - One chap did it using the acceleration from Hubbles law - i.e., equate the acceleration of gravity to the acceleration from the derivative of v= HR, and therefore dv/dt = H(dr/dt) = (H^2)R
I think he got it published in an electronics magazine. I have it around here somewhere. His derivation gave the result in perms of the density which is the same as what you get if you solve for G in the equation for critical density that comes out of the Einstein - de Sitter universe That is G =(3H^2)/8(pi)rho

Cheers
 
beautiful!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K