Could Quasar Activity Explain the Distribution of Dark Matter in Galaxies?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between quasar activity and the distribution of dark matter in galaxies. Participants explore how quasar jets might interact with dark matter and the implications for galaxy formation and structure, addressing concepts from astronomy and cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that dark matter is necessary to explain the uniform rotation speeds of galaxies, proposing that it is concentrated at the centers of galaxies.
  • Another participant argues against the idea that quasar jets could clear dark matter from the center of galaxies, noting that dark matter is primarily distributed along the galactic plane.
  • Some participants question the observed distribution of dark matter, particularly why there appears to be more dark matter at the edges of galaxies compared to the centers.
  • It is mentioned that dark matter is weakly interacting with ordinary matter, which raises questions about its distribution and the nature of its halo around galaxies.
  • One participant points out a discrepancy between predicted and observed dark matter density, suggesting it may be an issue with numerical simulations rather than the actual distribution.
  • Another participant explains that the mass enclosed by a star's orbit affects its speed, but this does not necessarily imply that dark matter density must increase with radius.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the distribution of dark matter and its interaction with quasar jets, with no consensus reached on the explanations for the observed phenomena.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions about dark matter distribution, the effects of quasar activity, and the implications of numerical simulations on predictions.

FeynmanMH42
Messages
69
Reaction score
0
I don't know if this belongs in Astronomy or Cosmology, mods, move it if you see fit.

As far as I'm aware the idea of Dark Matter was introduced because of the rotation of galaxies. Closer to a galaxy's centre matter should move faster because of the stronger gravitational pull, and further away from the centre matter should move more slowly. However, matter at the edge of a galaxy appears to be moving at the same speed as matter near the centre of a galaxy. This is only explainable if we have dark matter - the further away from a galaxy's centre, the more mass is needed to create a stronger gravitational pull and so the further away from a galaxy's centre the more dark matter there should be to balance out the gravitational pull and keep everything moving at the same speed.

However in 2003 WMAP showed that small density fluctuations in the CMBR were too slight to create galaxies and large-scale structure in the Universe, and could be explained by having clumps of dark matter which photons (the CMBR) didn't interact with. Visible "light" matter then was attracted to these dark matter cores, causing the fluctuations in the CMBR, and then later evolved into galaxies. This would imply that dark matter should be at the centre of galaxies, which contradicts the findings shown in spiral arms.

A theory is that quasars are (or were; they are billions of light years away so the light left them billions of years ago and we are seeing them as they were back then) young galaxies exploding into existence. Quasars give out huge amounts of energy and radiation in two jets from the top and bottom - my question is, when galaxies first formed, did they contain a lot of central dark matter? Then when they became active, did the quasar jets effectively clear the dark matter from the centre of the galaxy and the surroundings, leaving the central part of the galaxy virtually devoid of dark matter and the outer regions full of it, meaning that the WMAP findings and the spiral arm rotation curve can get on in perfect harmony?

Bear in mind that I am nearly 16 years old and have had no real education in this; my knowledge comes entirely from books, magazines and the internet, so if there is a flaw in my physics I'd be more than happy to have this pointed out to me.
 
Space news on Phys.org
I don't think the jets could have cleared the Dark Matter out of the center, as these jets shoot straight out from the poles of the galactic core, whereas most of the dark matter (and every other kind of matter) would be along the plane of rotation (sort-of the galactic equator).
 
Then why is there more dark matter at the edges of galaxies than the centres? Can someone explain that without having to say something cleared it from the centre?
 
Dark matter is weakly interacting with ordinary matter (like the stuff in quasar jets), so it can't have been blown out of the center of the galaxy. Also, the dark matter is not thought to be distributed in a disk, but rather an approximately spherical halo.
 
FeynmanMH42 said:
Then why is there more dark matter at the edges of galaxies than the centres? Can someone explain that without having to say something cleared it from the centre?

The density of dark matter is higher toward the center than at the edges. There is a discrepancy between how much dark matter is predicted to be in the center and how much is observed, but this is most likely a problem with the predictions (numerical simulations).

More info here:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=104282"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Last edited by a moderator:
FeynmanMH42 said:
How is that possible?

The speed of a star in its orbit is determined by the mass enclosed by its orbit (a sphere with the same radius as the orbit), as well as the radius of the orbit. Stars at larger distances from the center do require more enclosed mass to orbit at the same speed. However, this doesn't mean that the density has to increase with radius because the size of the enclosing sphere increases with radius. If, for example, the density of dark matter were uniform, the mass enclosed by the orbit would increase as the radius cubed (i.e. the volume of the sphere).
 
Ahh, I get it. Everything makes sense now.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
4K