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Could spacetime be a condensate?

  1. Feb 1, 2014 #1
    Are there any theories/papers/thoughts that view spacetime as being a condensate, basically a superfluid of spacetime, akin to the Higgs field? I see the pictures and equations that describe the inflation of the (observable) universe- the curvature of spacetime... and wonder if there might be a Mexican Hat to spacetime; a ground state aka an inflection point at what we currently calculate as 'being' the big bang?
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 1, 2014 #2
    As far as superfluids go there is one model that treats vacuum as a super fluid. That being SVT. Super fluid vacuum theory. Their may be others in regards to high energy physics that occurs during the universes first moments. However I've never heard of any.

    Here is a brief link to SVT

  4. Feb 10, 2014 #3
    Could there exist a quantum field of tiny black holes, steady state, maybe a ground state... where the force/curvature of gravity balances with the Hawking radiation pressure (entropy basically) of BH evaporation?
  5. Feb 10, 2014 #4


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    Staff: Mentor

    I'm afraid this doesn't really make any sense. That isn't how black holes and hawking radiation work. Please don't speculate.
  6. Feb 10, 2014 #5
    Drakkith, I don't think you understood what I was asking. Please read again; humbly, I'd enjoy your opinion... aside from 'please don't speculate'.
  7. Feb 10, 2014 #6


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    Staff: Mentor

    You're right. I have absolutely no idea what you're asking. As I said, I don't believe any of the concepts you mentioned work together that way.
  8. Feb 10, 2014 #7
    Just to be rhetoric I guess, "could there exist a quantum field of tiny black holes, steady state, maybe a ground state... where the force/curvature of gravity balances with the Hawking radiation pressure (entropy basically) of BH evaporation?"
  9. Feb 11, 2014 #8

    ...It might work but debatable. 'IF' a black hole exists for an extremely short time. We can 'assume' it undergoes Bekenstein-Hawking entropy is S=A/4 where A=infinitesimal. ΔE⋅Δt≥ℏ/2 i.e short existence of BH= virtual one (parity symmetry) which allows spontaneous "black-hole pair production.

    Our interpretation on Blackholes in QFT remains on the side. Not unless we developed a well understood QG,.Since (classical)Black holes do not have a fundamental mass in the same sense as no mass bounds associated with creation and annihilation fields in association with a black hole if one were to attempt to treat it as a fundamental particle. One would need to have a field for every possible mass of the black hole. This would leave an infinite number of particle fields and so on beyond.

    .... I don't follow the relation.
  10. Feb 11, 2014 #9


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    Staff: Mentor

    I'm not trying to be rude, but your question just doesn't make any sense to me. It looks like you've strung together a bunch of advanced physics concepts without any real understanding of what they are and how they work. Perhaps you can break your question up a bit and focus on one concept at a time?
  11. Feb 11, 2014 #10

    the ground state is a possibility, much of what you have written here makes little sense.

    This article is further detail on SVT.

    The Clouds of Physics and Einstein’s Last Query:
    Can Quantum Mechanics be Derived from General Relativity?

    Winterberg, Friedwardt


    keep in mind this is merely a proposal to support Winterbergs, " Planck Mass Plasma Vacuum Conjecture"

    so I wouldn't take it too seriously, for one I've never seen nor heard of any related materials so its probably a conjecture that isn't too popular or well known
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  12. Feb 11, 2014 #11
    It just so happens I've been reading about something that is very vaguely like this. I don't understand it, but it is a big deal in string theory. Try looking at holographic superconductors and AdS/CFT correspondence. The idea is that they found a bijection between string theory in a hyperbolic space vs. a superfluid of black holes! Some guy used to it calculate a shear viscosity in a quark/gluon plasma, so someone finally found a use for string theory! This is all new to me today so I can't tell you any more about it.
  13. Feb 11, 2014 #12
    this paper covers this.

  14. Feb 12, 2014 #13
    You are correct, I don't really understand these ideas- which is made especially clear to me when I try and set up a mathematical model that represents them as such. My apologies for being vague, and hard to understand. I'm trying my best to learn.

    Mordred, thanks for the links to SVT and a Planck Mass Plasma; the idea of negative mass has me kinda scratching my head. Can negative mass exist? I can picture it on a relative scale, but wouldn't that mean that superluminal 'motion' also exists? I have yet to read the paper from the folks in India, but I'm guessing that it will leave me scratching my head as well:)

    I'm still curious about the idea of a field of tiny (Kerr) black holes, where radiation balances with gravity. Any suggestions on how I would describe that mathematically? Would the force of gravity (the geodesics of spacetime resulting from the spin/charge/size of the BHs in such a field), balance with the quantum effects of Hawking radiation? Apologies again, that's probably hard to understand.
  15. Feb 14, 2014 #14
    How 'real' are the vorticies used in the FEA of such things?
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