Could Stolen Items Lead to Murder?

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The discussion centers around a tragic murder case in the U.S. where six individuals were killed, allegedly over a stolen Xbox. Sheriff Ben Johnson indicated that the crime was premeditated, stemming from anger over the theft. The conversation quickly shifts to a broader critique of violence in the U.S. compared to other countries, particularly Canada. Participants debate whether such extreme reactions to theft could occur elsewhere, with some asserting that violent incidents can happen globally, not just in the U.S. The discourse also touches on the differing crime rates between the U.S. and Canada, with participants providing statistics to support their arguments. The conversation highlights a tension between American and Canadian perspectives on crime and violence, with some participants expressing frustration over perceived smugness in Canadian attitudes towards U.S. crime. Overall, the thread reflects a complex dialogue about violence, cultural perceptions, and the implications of crime statistics in different nations.
  • #31
And humanino's opinion of its motivation somehow affects the factuality of the event having occurred in France? Can he provide some evidence that supports his opinion that somehow the US was involved in making this French citizens do what he did?

His opinion is extremely important to me. He's not American, therefore his opinion may be less biased.

You acted as if he was supporting the US in his post.
 
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  • #32
What are you going on about now? Are you really going to bring that up again? Your only support was one person saying he was sure there an OpenBSD virus (yet he couldn't name any or offer any evidence of any), and your buddy forum administrator who said he thought there could be one too (yet he couldn't name or any offer any evidence of any).

If you call that a victory, fine, pat yourself on the back. :smile: Leave it at the door though, and stay on topic in this thread.

- Warren
 
  • #33
chroot said:
What are you going on about now? Are you really going to bring that up again? Your only support was one person saying he was sure there an OpenBSD virus (yet he couldn't name any or offer any evidence of any), and your buddy forum administrator who said he thought there could be one too (yet he couldn't name or any offer any evidence of any).

If you call that a victory, fine, pat yourself on the back. :smile: Leave it at the door though, and stay on topic in this thread.

- Warren

That wasn't my point. The point was that you started 2 posts whining about the way I carry on arguments, when you're even worse. At least I don't have threads @ Feedback from members displeased with the way I carry myself.
 
  • #34
Dagenais said:
There's a reason a complaint thread was filed about you at "Feedback", maybe you should think about that.
I have thought about it. My conclusion was that all of the mentors have occasionally been on the receiving end of some flying poop, and it's rarely been justified. I hold a visible public position here, and am not a perfect human capable of making everyone happy. I also make mistakes. It's unavoidable that some people will disagree with my actions.

While we're on the topic of public feedback, perhaps you should think about the fact that virtually every thread you get into on this forum garners at least a few people expressing exasperation at your silly debate tactics.

- Warren
 
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  • #35
Dagenais said:
That wasn't my point. The point was that you started 2 posts whining about the way I carry on arguments, when you're even worse. At least I don't have threads @ Feedback from members displeased with the way I carry myself.
You have a lot more feedback than you seem to acknowledge; it's scattered all through the threads you participate in. And why would someone post a thread about you in the PF Feedback forum? You're not part of the staff of PF.

- Warren
 
  • #36
While we're on the topic of public feedback, perhaps you should think about the fact that virtually every thread you get into on this forum garners at least a few people expressing exasperation at your silly debate tactics.

It's actually you, who starts the whining about my debate tactics in the threads I'm in.

Just like this one, and about every other thread where the topic comes up.
 
  • #37
Dagenais said:
It's actually you, who starts the whining about my debate tactics in the threads I'm in.
You think it's just me, Dagenais? Are you serious?

- Warren
 
  • #38
And that concludes that debate...

Next topic, folks !
 
  • #39
Dagenais said:
His opinion is extremely important to me. He's not American, therefore his opinion may be less biased.

You acted as if he was supporting the US in his post.
Humanino was joking when he said it was being spread from the US, that's his type of humor.
 
  • #40
Florida's (where the crime took place) crime rate is lower than Canada's. Maybe we should all move to Florida?

Canada has a population of 31 million and had approximately 300,000 violent crimes in 2003.

Florida has slightly more than half the population at 15.9 Million and only 124,000 violent crimes in the same period. That is less than half of the number of violent crimes.
 
  • #41
Well, depends on if you want to live in a large city, or if you'd rather be killed than beaten up. In 2002, the murder rate for Toronto was 1.9 per 100,000. In Miami it was 7.7 per 100,000.

Sources:
http://www.morganquitno.com/cit02r.pdf
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2004/07/29/561120.html
 
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  • #42
check,

If you compare one of best large Canadian cities against the one of the worst large American cities, you're not making a comparison of Canada vs. America as a whole; you're just comparing those two cities.

Your own sources conflict with the point you're trying to make. For example, I'd much rather live in San Diego, US (3.7 murders per 100k) than Regina, Canada (5.1 murders per 100k).

- Warren
 
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  • #43
I'm not comparing Canada Vs US.
I'm comparing two cities of comparable population. One from Florida, which Artman said had a lower violent crime rate, and one from Canada. Of course this isn’t meant to reflect all of the state of Florida or Canada. I’m simply stating that while overall Canada has a slightly higher violent crime rate than the state of Florida, the murder rate it lower.
 
  • #44
chroot said:
check,

Your own sources conflict with the point you're trying to make. For example, I'd much rather live in San Diego, US (3.7 murders per 100k) than Regina, Canada (5.1 murders per 100k).

- Warren

Canada’s National murder rate: 2.0
USA’s National murder rate: 5.64

Was that the point you were looking for?

Anyway, I wasn’t trying to compare America and Canada in my last post, as I have stated. Just one large city in Canada to one large city in Florida.
 
  • #45
check said:
I'm not comparing Canada Vs US.
I'm comparing two cities of comparable population. One from Florida, which Artman said had a lower violent crime rate, and one from Canada. Of course this isn’t meant to reflect all of the state of Florida or Canada. I’m simply stating that while overall Canada has a slightly higher violent crime rate than the state of Florida, the murder rate it lower.

The State of Florida is where this case occured. Laws vary by State in the USA. There are different laws, different means of enforcing them, different ways of detering crime, different punishment from one state to another. Crimes of this nature are a state issue not federal in the USA..

Canada is no better, or no worse than a similar area with similar population, of similar economic level or similar conditions.
 
  • #46
Hmmm...sounds like a statement of translational symmetry. That's not a fair evaluation, is it ?
 
  • #47
Artman said:
Canada is no better, or no worse than a similar area with similar population, of similar economic level or similar conditions.

Yes, I totally agree.

Anyway, the only reason I posted a stat on a murder rate was as a joke, not to say that Canada is better than the US or anything.
 
  • #48
Gokul43201 said:
Hmmm...sounds like a statement of translational symmetry. That's not a fair evaluation, is it ?

If you are referring to my comparison of Florida to Canada, I was just trying to make the point that the entire USA is not crime infested and in fact the state in question is not as bad as being made out in this thread.

Okay, let's compare Florida to a Saskatchewan.

Saskatchewan Population 994,800
Florida Population 15,900,000

Florida Violent Crimes 124,000 / 159 = 780 per 100,000
Saskatchewan Violent Crimes 2,057 per 100,000

Wow! Saskatchewan has nearly three times as many violent crimes per capita as Florida. Wow, who'd of thought that? Sure hope that doesn't spread to the rest of the world.

People being murdered for stealing an Xbox is attrocious to good people everywhere. The cause of the crime is just as pointless to Americans as it is to Canadians.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo31a.htm
 
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  • #49
I was referring to the statement "Canada is no better, or no worse than a similar area with similar population, of similar economic level or similar conditions."

What do you mean by similar conditions ? If you replicate all the conditions in some new place, that place is not really any different from the original place. This is just the same as saying "An experiment performed at location A will have the same result as at location B, if you take all the conditions at B and move them to A." That's what I meant by 'translational symmetry'.

There are some conditions, that are merits/drawbacks of the system of governance/economy that should be allowed to play a role in any such comparison.
 
  • #50
Gokul43201 said:
I was referring to the statement "Canada is no better, or no worse than a similar area with similar population, of similar economic level or similar conditions."

What do you mean by similar conditions ? If you replicate all the conditions in some new place, that place is not really any different from the original place. This is just the same as saying "An experiment performed at location A will have the same result as at location B, if you take all the conditions at B and move them to A." That's what I meant by 'translational symmetry'.

There are some conditions, that are merits/drawbacks of the system of governance/economy that should be allowed to play a role in any such comparison.

I think I see what you are saying. Of course. Many crimes of violent nature are drug related, some are alcohol related, some are driven by economic hardships, or unemployment. Perhaps these problems are not the same in Canada, but apparently, they have some of their own.
 
  • #51
Dagenais said:
You mean the Islamic Countries that US invaded with their guns, tanks, jets and missiles?

The US has invaded Pakistan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran? I hadn't heard.

http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/research/other_docs/factsheets/canus/default.asp

http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/s=123/bcw1065594169250/

OTTAWA (CP) -- The rate of deaths from guns in Canada fell to an all-time low last year, providing fresh ammunition for gun-control advocates and drawing envy from south of the border.

The 26 per cent of homicides committed with a firearm was the lowest proportion since statistics were first collected in 1961, Statistics Canada reported Wednesday.

Stabbing was the most common method of killing, accounting for 31 per cent of homicides. Beatings resulted in 21 per cent of deaths, while strangulation or suffocation came in at 11 per cent.

The overall homicide rate actually increased slightly, but it was pushed up by the 15 deaths of missing women that occurred in previous years in Port Coquitlam, B.C., that were reported by police in 2002.

Okay, let's see. You have less people beind murdered with guns, but more people being murdered overall. This is a sign of progress how?
 
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  • #52
check said:
Canada’s National murder rate: 2.0
USA’s National murder rate: 5.64

What are the immigration rates and population densities in Canada and the US?
 
  • #53
loseyourname said:
What are the immigration rates and population densities in Canada and the US?

Canada's net migration rate: 5.96 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2004 est.)
United State's net migration rate: 3.41 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2004 est.)

Canada's Pop. Density: 3.57 People / sq km*
United State's Pop. Density: 31.98 People / sq km*

*I'm not sure how it's technically measured, but I did pop / land area, not total area..cause it makes more sense to me that way.

Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook
 
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  • #54
merak said:
I read of stupid people, doing stupid things, from all over the world. not just the us.

Hot off the press:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/08/10/philippines.cannibal.ap/index.html

Four members of a family have been arrested and charged with murder for allegedly killing and eating a relative during a wedding reception -- and serving his flesh to unwitting party guests, police have said.
 
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  • #55
enigma said:
Hot off the press:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/08/10/philippines.cannibal.ap/index.html

I wonder if they had cake.
 
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  • #56
...At the July 17 wedding of his daughter, Eladio Baule got angry with his cousin Benjie Ganay who tripped and accidentally touched the bride's bottom, said Senior Police Inspector Perla Bacuel, at Narra town in Palawan province, southwest of Manila...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/08/10/philippines.cannibal.ap/index.html

Well, at least they had a good reason for the murder.
 
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  • #57
This happened very close to where I live. I was working within 20 miles of the location yesterday.
 
  • #58
I'm sure there are more cannibals in Papua New Guinea/Irian Jaya than in Philippines ! :wink:
 
  • #59
Gokul43201 said:
I'm sure there are more cannibals in Papua New Guinea/Irian Jaya than in Philippines ! :wink:

Hope this doesn't spread to the rest of the world.
 

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