Could the Vatican's Exploration of Alien Life Impact Religious Beliefs?

[Moridin]

What I find so ironic about that, is that the Big Bang theory of the universe bears absolutely no resemblance to the creation story laid out in Genesis

To accept the Big Bang, you're pretty much forced to acknowledge that the universe must be several billions of years old.

You have to accept the fact that the planets, and ultimately life, were not independent and potentially divine aspects of the universe, but instead that our origins are purely cosmic in nature.

Again, this is nothing like what is described in Genesis.

http://www.michaelshermer.com/2001/12/genesis-revisited/

In the beginning — specifically on October 23, 4004 B.C., at noon — out of quantum foam fluctuation God created the Big Bang. The bang was followed by cosmological inflation. God saw that the Big Bang was very big, too big for creatures that could worship him, so He created the earth. And darkness was upon the face of the deep, so He commanded hydrogen atoms (which He created out of Quarks and other subatomic goodies) to fuse and become helium atoms and in the process release energy in the form of light. And the light maker he called the sun, and the process He called fusion. And He saw the light was good because now He could see what he was doing. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

[RocketSurgery]

Actually, George was one of the people who cautioned the pope not to get too committed to the BB because it lacked observational support.

Wow this dude mustve been a master of Irony Theory as well.

 

[RocketSurgery]

What I find so ironic about that, is that the Big Bang theory of the universe bears absolutely no resemblance to the creation story laid out in Genesis

To accept the Big Bang, you're pretty much forced to acknowledge that the universe must be several billions of years old.

You have to accept the fact that the planets, and ultimately life, were not independent and potentially divine aspects of the universe, but instead that our origins are purely cosmic in nature.

Again, this is nothing like what is described in Genesis.

It is very clear that Catholic church has acknowledged the many faults and failings contained within their teachings, but they have not admitted it. Instead, they "endorse" the latest science, and twist whatever they have to in order to make it compatible with a God.

Perhaps they day will come when they admit the virgin birth is a load of crap, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that one.

Nah its going to happen soon. They'll say they artificially inseminated Mary with God's sea men.

 

[BobG]

Nah its going to happen soon. They'll say they artificially inseminated Mary with God's sea men.

What!? So she's the woman that started the tradition of picking up sailors. I never knew that.

 

[shamrock5585]

i find religion to be a blanket over the eyes of society... it is based on no logic at all... all our beliefs, traditions, and customs have changed drastically in the past 100 years and we are constantly learning every day... so why does it make sense to follow blindly the beliefs of humans of over 2000 years ago which is based on no logic or science...

religion is good in a sense to ignorant people because some deranged people need guidlines to go by... I, myself see that i am an ethical person because i believe in working for the greater good and advancement of humanity... but ignorant people need the fear of god in them so that they have an ethical view on the world...

But if we want to talk about ignorance in religion we see that if god is our great creator and we all are his great children then why have we been killing each other throughout history in the name of religion... IF ANYTHING RELIGION HAS ONLY SLOWED OUR ADVANCEMENT IN SCIENCE! great philosophers of the past were affraid to express their actual view which may or may not have been correct because fear of the church. we have all these great religious books that different religious groups follow but who wrote them... some dude... not god... what race were adam and eve? if noah had to get two of every animal how did he get a kangaroo and a buffalo? and I've never seen a burning bush talk, but i have seen a crack head have a conversation with a wall before... its all just ignorance based on lack of logic from long ago

religion is a false truth with lack of backup so we rely on "faith" - but faith in what... some other people's beliefs? we need to accept that things that don't have an explanation can be explained, just not at the moment, and as a race we are looking for that TRUTH... Id rather spend my whole life looking for the right answer rather than accepting a false one

 

[shamrock5585]

Not a very helpfull attitude for a priest.
GoergeM> "Hey, boss - don't put too much faith in this, there is no real evidence yet."
Pope> "Can I remind you what business we are in ?"

;-)

awesome analogy by the way! haha

 

[seycyrus]

Some of the posters here are ridiculing aspects of religion by posing questions that could be answered by a quick skim through several books on the topic.

There HAVE been great religous thinkers, Contemporary as well as historical. Go read some of their works. Find something that isn't preachy. If you claim you can't, you aren't looking very hard.

Try C.S. Lewis, you know, the Narnia dude. His non-fiction discussions of ethics and beliefs, and many other topics are amazing. You won't be stunting your intellectual devolopment by reading his works.

If your "search for the truth" doesn't include even a cursory glance at the opposing point of view, your search isn't a search, it's a crusade.

 

[shamrock5585]

HAHA I've been going to church and sunday school my whole life... it makes me believe less and less because its all bullgarbage... i never said there was no such thing as an intellectual religous person i just said that many people that follow religion basically are ignorant and don't know what to believe in... funny how you say if you don't look at the other point of view its a CRUSADE... good word to use... i love irony...

original religious beliefs have been very wrong in explaining things and as we advance into the future religion has adapted to science to fill in the gaps with a bunch of bullgarbage until that can be proven wrong...

im saying if people just stopped accepting bullgarbage with no logic and look for an answer the world could be much more adnvanced than it is today... (what happened to our flying cars? ;-) )

Is it so hard to believe that when you die you don't actually go anywhere... i mean if your brain is organic and everything you do, feel, see, touch, and smell, is processed through your brain... when it rots away would you know it? you would cease to exist... most people can't get their mind around it so they say I am going to heaven yay... just like when you tell your kids santa is comin tonight... its more exciting than saying I am just gunna leave some presents under this tree for the morning...

another thing about the creation of life... its kinda hard to imagine what real randomness is... i mean is anything that humans do completely random... it does occur in nature... whos to say that some radiation didnt make some random garbage happen and somehow a self realizing organizm occurs.. maybe even a single cell... it could all evolve from there... atleast it has a little bit of logic to it... id rather believe in logic than some dude saying believe or you will go to hell? what I am gunna magically transport to the center of the earth... we proved magic doesn't exist a long time ago... the easter bunny doesn't either

 

[seycyrus]

HAHA I've been going to church and sunday school my whole life...

It is not my fault that your religous education was lacking. Or perhaps you were simply not the best student?

it makes me believe less and less because its all bullgarbage... i never said there was no such thing as an intellectual religous person i just said that many people that follow religion

Your words carry a certain amount of derision. Am I wrong in that assumption? I think not.

basically are ignorant and don't know what to believe in...

Strange that you make this claim when you don't know what the intellectual thinkers believe in.

funny how you say if you don't look at the other point of view its a CRUSADE... good word to use... i love irony...

I'm glad you liked the word. I put it their intentionally. Now perhaps you can apply the substance of the comment.

original religious beliefs have been very wrong in explaining things and as we advance into the future religion has adapted to science to fill in the gaps with a bunch of bullgarbage until that can be proven wrong...

The bible was not written as a scientific text. Next question?

im saying if people just stopped accepting bullgarbage with no logic and look for an answer the world could be much more adnvanced than it is today... (what happened to our flying cars? ;-) )

You are basing your views on what is believed by the beliefs expressed by the more "common man". Do you get your information of theories of physics and chemistry by asking joe schmoe on the street? I think not.

Is it so hard to believe that when you die you don't actually go anywhere...

I can make a bunch of predictions of after death scenarios, even without the existence of God. Science does not find this issue to be a priority.

another thing about the creation of life... its kinda hard to imagine what real randomness is... i mean is anything that humans do completely random... it does occur in nature... whos to say that some radiation didnt make some random garbage happen and somehow a self realizing organizm occurs.. maybe even a single cell... it could all evolve from there... atleast it has a little bit of logic to it... id rather believe in logic than some dude saying believe or you will go to hell? what I am gunna magically transport to the center of the earth... we proved magic doesn't exist a long time ago... the easter bunny doesn't either

Your thoughts are expressed in a pretty random fashion and again easily answered in an almost trivial way.

Why are you afraid of reading a book or two? At the very least it will enable you to express your objections to the matter in a coherent manner. I've read Russel and Dawkins...

 

[shamrock5585]

haha you have said nothing of relevance... you can disagree with me all you want but atleast say something with a point... you say i can be answered very trivially... so why don't you pull your head out of your ass and answer?

you state that you can make prediction of after death scenarios but yet just like many stubborn religous people you state that you can but yet you dont...

the bible wasnt a scientific text very true.. your a f ucking genius... so then why would we follow it in terms of creation or anything else for that matter? like i said... not based on logic

 

[seycyrus]

haha you have said nothing of relevance... you can disagree with me all you want but atleast say something with a point... you say i can be answered very trivially... so why don't you pull your head out of your ass and answer?

I did answer, go back to my post and reply to my points on a point by point basis.

you state that you can make prediction of after death scenarios but yet just like many stubborn religous people you state that you can but yet you dont...

Ok...

1) The memory space used to contain your account is erased after data is recorded. Your initial input data is then re-entered and the simulation is run again.

2) You take your place as a fully initiated member of the "Q" continuum.

3) ...

the bible wasnt a scientific text very true.. your a f ucking genius... so then why would we follow it in terms of creation or anything else for that matter? like i said... not based on logic

Who follows it in terms of creation? What exactly does that mean anyway?

 

[shamrock5585]

Ok...

1) The memory space used to contain your account is erased after data is recorded. Your initial input data is then re-entered and the simulation is run again.

2) You take your place as a fully initiated member of the "Q" continuum.?

haha so who is uploading and downloading the data? atleast my theory was complete! remember... magic no long exists haha

your theory is just the theory of heaven and hell except using scientific words


This is exactly why i hate talking about religion... complete abstract nonsense and its always incomplete...

 

[shamrock5585]

Who follows it in terms of creation? What exactly does that mean anyway?

i was trying to point out that if there is no basis on what it is written other than nonsense then why should people believe it? faith? haha

whenever you are coming up with an official document explaining theories and using knowledge it normally has a source of where the information came from... the bible doesn't even have an author and yet it is still revised from time to time haha wtf

 

[seycyrus]

i was trying to point out that if there is no basis on what it is written other than nonsense then why should people believe it? faith? haha

But you don't know if there is any basis, because you haven't read anything, but instead base your perceptions on what the crowd at walmart says.

I'm pointing out that if your knowledge of science is as deep as your knowledge of religion, then you are not qualified to discuss either.

 

[shamrock5585]

hahaha you crack me up... go back to church and get on your knees for father douche bag...

its great to be told i have no knowledge of science or religion by a guy who says I am wrong when I am just suggesting if something is possible and then, doesn't even give a reason for why i am wrong...

im gunna bet your pastor is your best friend...

ive read religous books and I've read many science books.. id rather not waste my time on things based on nothing...

critisize my credentials... I am a 5th year student in electromechanical engineering with a very deep understanding of physics, math and sciences... wtf are your credentials alter boy?

 

[baywax]

Its interesting to note, and ironic (as has been pointed out), that the church is an important reason science has been able to survive the last 2000 years. What discoveries that were made before and during those years were kept by the church in libraries that were unmatched by most other collections of knowledge. I'm not sure if the church hoarded the knowledge to keep the population in the dark about certain facts or if they were the good hearted archivers of knowledge they are often portrayed to be.

The last pope admitted that hell was a state of mind which stepped well out of the boundaries of traditional doctrine and into theoretical psychology. I don't remember him talking about UFOs or extraterrestrial congregations.

 

[seycyrus]

hahaha you crack me up... go back to church and get on your knees for father douche bag...

its great to be told i have no knowledge of science or religion by a guy who says I am wrong when I am just suggesting if something is possible and then, doesn't even give a reason for why i am wrong...

I explicitly questioned your refusal to examine the critical thinking of christian theologians in answering some of silly questions you asked.

ive read religous books and I've read many science books..

Which religous books? Your shallow objections suggested that you didn't digest the contents.

critisize my credentials... I am a 5th year student in electromechanical engineering with a very deep understanding of physics, math and sciences... wtf are your credentials alter boy?

I have a doctorate in solid state physics. Worked in superconductivity.

 

[shamrock5585]

The last pope admitted that hell was a state of mind which stepped well out of the boundaries of traditional doctrine and into theoretical psychology. I don't remember him talking about UFOs or extraterrestrial congregations.

another case of covering your ass... hell used to be real and actual until we figure out that oh yeah there aint some mystical place down underneath us... so then the church must come up with an explanation... fill in the cracks with some bull garbage

 

[seycyrus]

another case of covering your ass... hell used to be real and actual until we figure out that oh yeah there aint some mystical place down underneath us... so then the church must come up with an explanation... fill in the cracks with some bull garbage

Where in the bible does it say that hell is underneath us? Again, I'm sorry that your education, religous or otherwise, was so lacking.

 

[shamrock5585]

does the bible not describe the "deep firey pits of hell" that sounds like an explanation of a place to me rather than a state of mind... the bible has also been revised like i said to "cover the church's ass"

I have a doctorate in solid state physics. Worked in superconductivity.

you still have yet to make a solid point... you have stated nothing of useful knowledge.. all you have done is question my points... i never said i was completely right... i pointed out many flaws in religion and stated some points that i think are logic explanations for those gaps... you have contributed nothing to this conversation except the Diarrhea that has spewed from your mouth!

 

[shamrock5585]

Some of the posters here are ridiculing aspects of religion by posing questions that could be answered by a quick skim through several books on the topic.

There HAVE been great religous thinkers, Contemporary as well as historical. Go read some of their works. Find something that isn't preachy. If you claim you can't, you aren't looking very hard.

Try C.S. Lewis, you know, the Narnia dude. His non-fiction discussions of ethics and beliefs, and many other topics are amazing. You won't be stunting your intellectual devolopment by reading his works.

If your "search for the truth" doesn't include even a cursory glance at the opposing point of view, your search isn't a search, it's a crusade.

like i said... you have posted nothing of any use... I am going to quote my original post and you can point out how my science and religion background is skewed instead of just putting down some bullgarbage that a book or two might be able to

i find religion to be a blanket over the eyes of society... it is based on no logic at all... all our beliefs, traditions, and customs have changed drastically in the past 100 years and we are constantly learning every day... so why does it make sense to follow blindly the beliefs of humans of over 2000 years ago which is based on no logic or science...

religion is good in a sense to ignorant people because some deranged people need guidlines to go by... I, myself see that i am an ethical person because i believe in working for the greater good and advancement of humanity... but ignorant people need the fear of god in them so that they have an ethical view on the world...

But if we want to talk about ignorance in religion we see that if god is our great creator and we all are his great children then why have we been killing each other throughout history in the name of religion... IF ANYTHING RELIGION HAS ONLY SLOWED OUR ADVANCEMENT IN SCIENCE! great philosophers of the past were affraid to express their actual view which may or may not have been correct because fear of the church. we have all these great religious books that different religious groups follow but who wrote them... some dude... not god... what race were adam and eve? if noah had to get two of every animal how did he get a kangaroo and a buffalo? and I've never seen a burning bush talk, but i have seen a crack head have a conversation with a wall before... its all just ignorance based on lack of logic from long ago

religion is a false truth with lack of backup so we rely on "faith" - but faith in what... some other people's beliefs? we need to accept that things that don't have an explanation can be explained, just not at the moment, and as a race we are looking for that TRUTH... Id rather spend my whole life looking for the right answer rather than accepting a false one

 

[seycyrus]

does the bible not describe the "deep firey pits of hell" that sounds like an explanation of a place to me rather than a state of mind...

You are the one who claimed the great religous education. You tell me. Perhaps you'd care to post that passage.

the bible has also been revised like i said to "cover the church's ass"

Please show me which books of the bible have been revised, and what the revisions were. note I am asking about ordering, inclusion or exclusion. I am asking you to show me which books were revised in say, the last 1500 years.

you still have yet to make a solid point...

Puppy. I answered your question as to my credentials.

I have addressed every single point you have made. The fact that in your replies to me you just ignored my responses is not my problem.

you have stated nothing of useful knowledge.. all you have done is question my points... i never said i was completely right... i pointed out many flaws in religion and stated some

Your flaws are ill conceived because you do not know the beliefs held by those who have written and thought on the subject, but rather dwell on those expressed by your drunken walmart buddies. It is no wonder that they are as confused as you are, if their education was either of the same quality or was as well received as was yours.

You have admitted that you do not know what they believe, yet somehow feel free to express an opinion on it. Which is truly amazing.

 

[shamrock5585]

hahaha you claim i have terrible religious background and tell me to quote the bible... sorry man i don't keep a bible on me at work... if your the expert then pull that garbage out of your own ass... obvioiusly walmart is your favorite place to talk about maybe you should go down there and pick one up...

ill point out that you have addressed SOME of my points... vaguely and indirectly... but yet you have still not addressed my original post which you were quick to critisize... so here we are idle on the subject because you fail to actually say anything of use

 

[seycyrus]

... Id rather spend my whole life looking for the right answer rather than accepting a false one

Again, you are looking with one eye closed. I suggest you read Dawkins latest book, for a primer on how an educated person criticizes religion.

 

[seycyrus]

hahaha you claim i have terrible religious background and tell me to quote the bible... sorry man i don't keep a bible on me at work... if your the expert then pull that garbage out of your own ass...

You are the one who provided the pseudo-quote. The onus is on you to back it up. I never claimed to be an expert.

ill point out that you have addressed SOME of my points...

I'll point out that you still have not addressed any of mine.

 

[shamrock5585]

just a comment... i might read that book if you actually were successful in making any point at all... like i said, i tell you to address my original post which is a couple paragraphs long and you respont with two sentences in regards to one line of what i said.

 

[shamrock5585]

You are the one who provided the pseudo-quote. The onus is on you to back it up. I never claimed to be an expert.

who cares... we are so damn off-point... if you arent the expert an who the f uck are you to critisize what i originally said

an i havnt addressed any of your points because you havnt had any dumbass

 

[shamrock5585]

you got a big head because you can poke at people areguments without actually putting in your own input... its not hard jackass

You are basing your views on what is believed by the beliefs expressed by the more "common man". Do you get your information of theories of physics and chemistry by asking joe schmoe on the street? I think not.



I can make a bunch of predictions of after death scenarios, even without the existence of God. Science does not find this issue to be a priority.

common science doesn't address this priority but maybe you should read up on it instead of talking to you common alter boy at walmart... irony is a jerk fool

 

[seycyrus]

you got a big head because you can poke at people areguments without actually putting in your own input... its not hard jackass

Your claims consisted of a rambling, incoherent mass of half sentences which were either incorrect in their assignation of what others believe or irrelevant.

You fault people for their ignorance of certain beliefs, but are ignorant as to what these beliefs actualy are. That is MY point. A point which you have proven. Your ignorance extends to virtually everythign you have said.

Show me where is says that hell is underneath us. It doesn't. Ignorance #1

Religion has in fact at times advanced science. Ignorance #2

Your Adam and Eve ?question? is so ill posed that it is difficult to determine your point exactly, but does not remove the fact that this ?question? is not an important point to modern christians. That you seem to be claiming that it is, further displays your ignorance.
Ignorance #3.

Buffalo and Kangaroo? What is your point here? Am I to assume you are trying to bring up a hybrid species and claim that it could not have beencarried on the ark? If so...Buffalo and Kangaroo have both genders. Perhaps you are referring to the mule, but I don't know. Since your *point* was not a point at all, but just a spasmodic garbling of two words.

Could you be making the claim that the kangaroo and buffalo would have had to walk a LOOOONNNG way? Who knows. It's not my job to figure out your incoherent ramblings. By the way, Moses took 7 of the clean animals and 2 of the unclean ones and some birds. Ignorance #4

Burning bush talking? I've never seen a piece of plastic talk before, but cell phones talk to me every day. This point is so ridiculous and easily dismissed that even a casual amount of thought would have revealed it for the stupid argument that it is. Ignorance # 5.

Forget my advice about reading Lewis, or Dawkins. Just go read ANYTHING, puppy.

 

[seycyrus]

who cares... we are so damn off-point...

Yeah far be it for you to actually worry about being correct about what you said.

if you arent the expert an who the f uck are you to critisize what i originally said

I didn't. My post didnt' quote yours, nor did it immediately follow yours. The fact that you chose to rise up and respond to my post is not my concern.