Count Proton Particles: How Many?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the composition of protons, particularly in the context of high-energy collisions in particle physics. Participants explore the nature of protons, the particles that constitute them, and the implications of collisions between protons in particle accelerators.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the number of sub-particles in a proton and whether these can exist independently or be further divided.
  • Another participant asserts that the particles observed in collisions are created from the energy of the colliding protons, not from the protons themselves.
  • It is noted that protons are made of three quarks (red, blue, and green), but this view is challenged as inadequate for describing high-energy collisions.
  • Some participants propose a more complex model of protons as consisting of valence quarks, sea quarks, and gluons, emphasizing the role of gluons and sea quarks in high-energy interactions.
  • Clarification is provided that individual quarks and gluons cannot exist independently outside of hadrons like protons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate model for understanding protons in high-energy collisions, with some advocating for a simpler model based on three quarks and others supporting a more complex view involving partons. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best representation of protons in this context.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of particles and the assumptions made about their interactions in high-energy environments. The complexity of particle interactions and the nature of sub-particles are not fully resolved.

thetexan
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I was reading about this experiment and collision and I wondered...is a proton really made up of this many sub particles? According to the caption this picture represents the result of colliding two protons together. So am I looking at the sub-proton particles of both of these protons.

Is there really that many? All stuffed into two protons? Can any of these be further divided? Do any of them exist independently outside of the proton so that two of THEM can be collided together to see what comes out?

tex

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thetexan said:
is a proton really made up of this many sub particles?

No. The outgoing particles are created in the collision, out of the combined energy of the incoming protons.
 
Protons are made of three particles, a red quark, a blue quark, and a green quark. Remember, particle accelerators fire beams of protons, not just one at a time, producing a large amount of particles, not just from the protons.

Also, these cannot be further subdivided, they are elementary particles. They don't actually look like 3-dimensional balls, they are point particles.

EDIT: Ah, jtbell beat me to it.
 
Mark M said:
Protons are made of three particles, a red quark, a blue quark, and a green quark.
That is a bad model for high-energetic collisions.

It is better to look at Protons as a sum of many particles, usually called partons - 3 valence quarks, and in addition sea quarks (like virtual quark/antiquark pairs) and gluons.
While the valence quarks usually have a large energy, you have many gluons and sea quarks with low energy. This is described via so-called structure functions.

If you look at the LHC, for example, the usual process for generating some particles is the collision of gluons.


>> Do any of them exist independently outside of the proton
They can exist in hadrons (like the proton) only, you cannot have individual gluons or individual quarks.
 
mfb said:
That is a bad model for high-energetic collisions.

It is better to look at Protons as a sum of many particles, usually called partons - 3 valence quarks, and in addition sea quarks (like virtual quark/antiquark pairs) and gluons.
While the valence quarks usually have a large energy, you have many gluons and sea quarks with low energy. This is described via so-called structure functions.

Thanks, my knowledge of particle physics is rather lacking, this had originally been posted quantum physics, which is why I had answered.
 

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