Coupling torsion to electromagnetism and torsion tensor decomposition

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the coupling of torsion to electromagnetism within the framework of general relativity. Participants explore the implications of setting the traceless part of the torsion tensor to zero and the validity of a specific decomposition of the torsion tensor into three components: trace part, axial part, and traceless part. The conversation touches on theoretical considerations and mathematical formulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that several authors assume the traceless part of the torsion tensor vanishes for mathematical convenience and question whether this is related to gauge invariance.
  • There is a proposal regarding the decomposition of the torsion tensor into three components, with a specific mathematical formulation provided, and a question about whether this is the most general decomposition.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the term "most general" in relation to the torsion tensor decomposition, suggesting it should not impose geometrical constraints on its components.
  • References to works by Novello, Sabbata, and Gasperini are mentioned as sources for further reading on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the assumptions regarding the torsion tensor and the validity of its decomposition. Participants express differing interpretations of what constitutes the "most general" form of the torsion tensor.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached consensus on the necessity of setting the traceless part of the torsion tensor to zero or the implications of the proposed decomposition. The discussion reflects various assumptions and interpretations that remain open for further exploration.

nicopa
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TL;DR
Reason why the traceless part of the torsion tensor is usually set to zero in theories that extend general relativity to include electromagnetism?
When extending general relativity to include electromagnetism, several authors (e.g. Novello, Sabbata ecc.) assume that the traceless part of the torsion tensor vanishes or is deliberately set to zero. Then, either the trace or axial part of the torsion is used in association with the electromagnetic potential (coupling). Is there any reason why, besides mathematical convenience, the leftover part of the torsion is set to zero?
Is it related to gauge invariance?

Furthermore, is it correct to consider the decomposition of the torsion tensor into three components - i.e., trace part, axial part, and traceless part - as the most general one?
The decomposition I'm referring to is the following: $$T^λ_{μν} = \bar{T}^λ_{μν}+\frac{1}{6}ϵ_{λμνρ}V^ρ+\frac{1}{3}(g_{λν}T_μ − g_{λμ}T_ν)$$ where ##\bar{T}^λ_{μν}## is the traceless part of torsion, ##V^ρ## is the axial torsion vector or "pseudo-trace" and ##T_μ## is the torsion trace vector. This is found for example in Sur and Bhatia (Appendix, A-7 to A-10).
 
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Is there anyone who can answer? Does the question need clarification?
 
nicopa said:
several authors (e.g. Novello, Sabbata ecc.)
Do you have any specific references?
 
nicopa said:
is it correct to consider the decomposition of the torsion tensor into three components - i.e., trace part, axial part, and traceless part - as the most general one?
What do you mean by "most general"?
 
PeterDonis said:
What do you mean by "most general"?
I mean that it doesn't require any assumptions as to a specific form of the torsion tensor, e.g. with vanishing traceless part. In other words, that the above mentioned decomposition of the torsion tensor doesn't imply any geometrical constraints on its components.
 

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