Creating an Artificial Cloud: Is It Possible?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of creating a 10m³ artificial cloud at an altitude of about 1000 feet. Participants explore the visual realism of such clouds compared to natural ones, the processes involved in cloud formation, and potential methods for creating artificial clouds.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the definition of "cloud," suggesting that different types of clouds, such as cumulus clouds, have distinct formation processes that may be difficult to replicate artificially.
  • There is a suggestion that clouds are formed by water, sunlight, and nucleating agents, with some participants noting that the process is not fully understood and that attempts to artificially induce clouds have been made.
  • One participant proposes using a rocket to discharge smoke as a potential method for creating an artificial cloud, while others express concerns about the smoke dissipating quickly and the feasibility of such an approach.
  • Another idea involves using a large balloon to continuously discharge smoke, with considerations about the type of chemical used to ensure it appears cloud-like.
  • A more elaborate suggestion includes using a caldera lake and irrigation methods to create conditions conducive to cloud formation through natural processes.
  • Some participants mention the energy requirements for creating clouds and the potential for using nuclear plant cooling towers to augment cloud formation under certain conditions.
  • There is a mention of the potential usefulness of artificial clouds in geoengineering to combat global warming, referencing experiments that could test this concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the feasibility and methods for creating artificial clouds, with no consensus reached on a definitive approach or the effectiveness of proposed methods. The discussion remains open-ended with multiple competing ideas and uncertainties.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the processes involved in natural cloud formation are complex and not entirely understood, which may complicate efforts to replicate them artificially. There are also concerns about the practical implications and limitations of various proposed methods.

ANarwhal
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Is it possible to make a 10m^3 artificial cloud at about 1000ft in the sky?

If yes, how real does it look? Could someone tell the difference between the artificial cloud and the natural clouds simply by looking up at the sky?
 
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ANarwhal said:
Is it possible to make a 10m^3 artificial cloud at about 1000ft in the sky?

If yes, how real does it look? Could someone tell the difference between the artificial cloud and the natural clouds simply by looking up at the sky?

What do you mean by the nebulous term "cloud"? A puff of smoke we can make. The mighty cumulonimbus cloud, sprouting lightning and shooting electrons from its electric and magnetic fields is one of the greatest works of nature, hard to understand and impossible to duplicate on demand.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
Dotini said:
What do you mean by the nebulous term "cloud"? A puff of smoke we can make. The mighty cumulonimbus cloud, sprouting lightning and shooting electrons from its electric and magnetic fields is one of the greatest works of nature, hard to understand and impossible to duplicate on demand.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

Good point, I mean this type of cloud: http://whyfiles.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/clouds.jpg

I am not interested in lightning, rain, or any other weather effects.
 
Clouds are thought (by me) to be most parsimoniously formed water, sunlight, and some kind of nucleating agent. Even cosmic rays may be involved. The process is not entirely explained at this time. Attempts have been made, either in the field or in theory, to artificially induce them. Some of these attempts border on crackpottery, so it's not an easy topic to discuss.

Respectfully,
Steve
 
Last edited:
Dotini said:
Clouds are thought (by me) to be formed by water, sunlight, and some kind of nucleating agent. Even cosmic rays may be involved. The process is not entirely explained at this time. Attempts have been made, either in the field or in theory, to artificially induce them. Some of these attempts border on crackpottery, so it's not an easy topic to discuss.

Respectfully,
Steve

Even with that being the case, is there not a solution that looks just as good to the naked eye?
 
ANarwhal said:
Even with that being the case, is there not a solution that looks just as good to the naked eye?

Perhaps you would be visually satisfied by a rocket discharging a payload of smoke?

Yours,
Steve
 
Those clouds of your picture are cumulus clouds. Nature makes them by different heating rate of the Earth below. Hotter air start to rise (convection) and cools adiabatically due to expansion. If the lapse rate of the lower atmosphere is sufficient then cumulus clouds will form. So if you want to make these clouds, have a real big bonfire, boiling water on it, and hope if it works.
 
Dotini said:
Perhaps you would be visually satisfied by a rocket discharging a payload of smoke?

Yours,
Steve

Wouldn't the rocket be pushing the smoke away from it? How long could this effect pretend to be a cloud before it dissipated?
 
ANarwhal said:
Wouldn't the rocket be pushing the smoke away from it? How long could this effect pretend to be a cloud before it dissipated?

With sufficient money and time for experimentation, you might do quite well. Perhaps a large balloon carrying a large quantity of fuel for continuous combustion and discharge of smoke could make an impressive display for quite a while. The smoke particles and weather conditions will matter.

Note: launch of a rocket over one lb will require authorization, and starting a forest fire might get you jailed - so be careful!

Yours,
Steve
 
  • #10
Dotini said:
With sufficient money and time for experimentation, you might do quite well. Perhaps a large balloon carrying a large quantity of fuel for continuous combustion and discharge of smoke could make an impressive display for quite a while. The smoke particles and weather conditions will matter.

Note: launch of a rocket over one lb will require authorization, and starting a forest fire might get you jailed - so be careful!

Yours,
Steve

Like you suggested, it would be done via balloon, so I guess no "launch" would be required. Is there any kind of chemical that is particularly good at looking... cloud like when it comes to these things? I mean I don't want a brown cloud, that would stick out like a saw thumb.
 
  • #11
Pyrotechnics are not my forte, but I found this for you: http://www.pyronfo.com/pyrotechnics/the-combustion-reactions-of-a-pyrotechnic-white-smoke-composition.html

Have fun, be safe
Steve
 
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  • #12
Kurt Vonnegut's brother is reported to have invented the method of seeding rain clouds by blasting artillery shells filled with silver nitrate (or nitrite? can't remember).

Here's my terrible and overly expensive advice for making a large cloud: find a caldera lake. Pipe significant amounts of water out of the lake and into a moat around the base of the volcano. Use irrigation methods to spread the moat over a very large area, like rice paddies.

Wait for a sunny day. Because of the engineered bacteria you released into the lake the previous day (I mentioned that, right?) produce insulating silicon detritus, The lake will reflect heat into the air above it. This hot air creates an updraft over top the volcano. Updraft will suck in air from surrounding area, which is now more moist than usual because of whole irrigation/moat setup has evaporated water into the air above it.

Moist warm air being pushed up the slope of a mountain will form a cloud if it goes high enough (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifted_condensation_level).

Good luck!
 
  • #13
Nuclear plant cooling towers can at least augment and perhaps seed or create cumulus clouds in certain conditions.
 
  • #14
I am wondering whether something as simple as cotton or spun sugar (fairy floss) could be used as substitutes if all it needed to do was fool someone 1,000 ft away?
 
  • #15
It's worth while to consider the amount of Energy needed to get a cloud up there. A cumulus cloud could be 1km square in area. They are generated by the Sun's energy warming up the ground, causing convection. If it takes 1 hour to warm the ground up sufficiently over an area of 106m2, to produce the cloud (I don't know how representative that time is but it can't need more than, say 10 hours), that one hour represents (106X103X3600) J (area times solar constant times time), or about 3.612J or 1GWhr which would be quite an expensive demo.
All that potentially useful energy 'going to waste', every day over the whole country.
 
  • #16
ANarwhal said:
Is it possible to make a 10m^3 artificial cloud at about 1000ft in the sky?

Oh, yes. I got to watch a 60-second shuttle main engine burn test several years ago- it looks just like any other cloud, slowly rising into the sky like a giant balloon.
 
  • #17
ANarwhal said:
Is it possible to make a 10m^3 artificial cloud at about 1000ft in the sky?

If yes, how real does it look? Could someone tell the difference between the artificial cloud and the natural clouds simply by looking up at the sky?

It just may be that artificial clouds could be extremely useful to save our planet from overheating!

"Experiment would test cloud geoengineering as way to slow warming"
http://www.washington.edu/news/2012...-cloud-geoengineering-as-way-to-slow-warming/

"Could man-made clouds halt global warming by reflecting sunlight? Scientist calls for experiments using ships which shoot seawater into the sky"
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...g-ships-shoot-seawater-sky.html#ixzz24EyoiEUf
 

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