Is It Possible to Create a Natural Vacuum in a Cavern Using Clay and Water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the plausibility of a naturally occurring vacuum in a cavern formed by the interaction of clay and water, as well as the potential for recreating such a vacuum artificially. Participants explore the mechanisms behind vacuum formation, the feasibility of artificial creation, the time required for such processes, and the effects of vacuum on various materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a scenario where a vacuum was formed in a cavern due to clay absorbing water, leading to a lack of replacement fluid.
  • Another participant challenges the idea, stating that as water drains, the space would fill with air or gas, questioning the evidence for sustained low pressure.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that if water is absorbed into clay without air access, it would result in a chamber filled with water vapor rather than a vacuum.
  • One participant posits that the clay would remain moist if in contact with water, speculating that only under very specific conditions could a slight vacuum be achieved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the formation of a vacuum in the cavern, with some questioning the initial premise and others suggesting alternative outcomes. No consensus is reached on the accuracy of the original claim or the feasibility of recreating such a vacuum.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight assumptions regarding the interaction of clay and water, the conditions necessary for vacuum formation, and the implications for material properties, but these remain unresolved.

Liam A
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i work at a cavern attraction and one of the parts in the speech we say is that a section of the cavern was once filled with a naturally occurring vacuum until it was punctured and destroyed. we explain in the speech that the vacuum was created when a river packed in that area with mud and clay. we say there were pockets of water trapped inside, and since clay is much like salt in that obsorbs moisture, the clay took the water out and there was nothing to replace it and therefore a vacuum formed. a few things i would like to know is:
a: how accurate and plausible this is.
b: if it could be recreated artificially, by for example lining or partially filling a container or room with clay and filling it with water.
c: how long the process would normally take if it is possible
d: and what the effects the vacuum would have on certain materials, specifically metal, wood, rust, or mold
 
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Liam A said:
i work at a cavern attraction and one of the parts in the speech we say is that a section of the cavern was once filled with a naturally occurring vacuum until it was punctured and destroyed. we explain in the speech that the vacuum was created when a river packed in that area with mud and clay. we say there were pockets of water trapped inside, and since clay is much like salt in that obsorbs moisture, the clay took the water out and there was nothing to replace it and therefore a vacuum formed. a few things i would like to know is:
a: how accurate and plausible this is.
b: if it could be recreated artificially, by for example lining or partially filling a container or room with clay and filling it with water.
c: how long the process would normally take if it is possible
d: and what the effects the vacuum would have on certain materials, specifically metal, wood, rust, or mold

That makes no sense- as the water drained out, the space was filled with air- or some sort of gas. What is your evidence that the cavern pressure was below atmospheric pressure for any length of time?
 
I think if most of the water was absorbed into the clay with no way for air to get it (an unlikely premise but conceivable), this would not create a vacuum, it would simply create a chamber that was filled with water vapor instead of liquid water
 
The clay should have been moist all the time if it was in contact with water.

I can imagine that very weird circumstances with just the right timescales could lead to some amount of water in dry clay which then quickly gets shut off from the remaining water. But even then I don't think the vacuum would get very good. Maybe a slightly lower pressure.
 

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