Curved Dirac equation, Spin connection

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation and manipulation of the curved Dirac equation and the spin connection in a specific action framework. Participants explore the mathematical relationships and calculations involved in proving certain terms related to the Dirac equation in curved spacetime.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an action integral and attempts to derive a specific relationship involving the covariant derivative and the spin connection, expressing difficulty in proving that a certain term equals a scalar.
  • Another participant challenges the first by suggesting that they are conflating a matrix with a scalar and requests clarification on their calculations.
  • A different participant provides specific values for the Christoffel symbols and tetrads, arguing that certain terms vanish under specific conditions, thus questioning the validity of contributions to the equation.
  • One participant disputes a claim regarding the commutation of gamma matrices, providing a counterexample from the Dirac basis and suggesting that only specific terms contribute to the equation.
  • Several participants discuss the relationship between indices in the context of the spin connection, with one asserting that the indices do not need to be equal and providing an example of a non-vanishing contribution.
  • Another participant shares their progress in the calculations, indicating they are close to the expected result but are struggling with the presence of a specific gamma matrix term, seeking feedback on potential mistakes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain mathematical manipulations and the contributions of specific terms in the equations. There is no consensus on the correctness of the calculations or the interpretations of the relationships between the terms discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical expressions and relationships that depend on the definitions of the gamma matrices, Christoffel symbols, and tetrads. The discussion includes unresolved calculations and assumptions that may affect the outcomes.

pleasehelpmeno
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(1,a^2,a^2,a^2)) from the action; \mathcal{S}_{D}[\phi,\psi,e^{\alpha}_{\mu}] = \int d^4 x \det(e^{\alpha}_{\mu}) \left[ \mathcal{L}_{KG} + i\bar{\psi}\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}D_{\mu}\psi - (m_{\psi} + g\phi)\bar{\psi}\psi \right]<br /> I can show that, i\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}D_{\mu}\psi - (m_{\psi}+g\phi)\psi =0 by varying the action. I know that D_{\mu}=\partial_{\mu}+\frac{1}{4}\gamma_{\alpha\beta}\omega^{\alpha\beta}_{\mu} and I know how to relate \bar{\gamma}^{\mu}to the flat space-time gamma matrices \gamma, I am just stuck trying to prove that \frac{1}{4}\gamma_{\alpha\beta}\omega^{\alpha\beta}_{\mu}=\frac{3}{2}\frac{\dot{a}}{a} I think this term is equal to \frac{1}{4}\left( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}\right) \left( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma \mu}\right) but if it is I can't get the above result, can anyone help?
 
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pleasehelpmeno said:
(1,a^2,a^2,a^2)) from the action; \mathcal{S}_{D}[\phi,\psi,e^{\alpha}_{\mu}] = \int d^4 x \det(e^{\alpha}_{\mu}) \left[ \mathcal{L}_{KG} + i\bar{\psi}\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}D_{\mu}\psi - (m_{\psi} + g\phi)\bar{\psi}\psi \right]<br /> I can show that, i\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}D_{\mu}\psi - (m_{\psi}+g\phi)\psi =0 by varying the action. I know that D_{\mu}=\partial_{\mu}+\frac{1}{4}\gamma_{\alpha\beta}\omega^{\alpha\beta}_{\mu} and I know how to relate \bar{\gamma}^{\mu}to the flat space-time gamma matrices \gamma, I am just stuck trying to prove that \frac{1}{4}\gamma_{\alpha\beta}\omega^{\alpha\beta}_{\mu}=\frac{3}{2}\frac{\dot{a}}{a} I think this term is equal to \frac{1}{4}\left( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}\right) \left( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma \mu}\right) but if it is I can't get the above result, can anyone help?

This is a repost of the question you asked in https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=4316692#post4316692. You are still somehow under the impression that a matrix should equal a scalar. You also seem to want people to do algebra for you, since you haven't bothered to show that you've done any additional work on the calculation since I tried to help you.

Please tell us what result you get when you try to compute

$$\frac{1}{4}\left( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}\right) \left( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma \mu}\right).$$
 
I didn't wamt to post a long answer but here goes,

So \Gamma^{0}_{ij}=\dot{a}a and \Gamma^{i}_{0j}=\frac{\dot{a}}{a}
e^{\nu}_{\alpha}=(1,1/a,1/a,1/a)
e_{\beta\nu}=(1,a,a,a)
When \alpha or \beta equals zero then \gamma^{0}\gamma^{\rho}-\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{0}=0 so this isn't allowed.

If \alpha=\beta then the gamma matrices also go to zero, so \alpha \neq \beta to contribute.
So if \nu\neq\alphaor\beta the e^{\nu}_{\alpha}or e_{\beta\nu} will equal zero or so this term can immediately be discarded as it will always equal zero since \alpha \neq \beta. \Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma\mu} will only be non zero if \nu=0 but then \alpha=0 so this is not possible or \sigma =0 and \nu=\mu but then \beta is zero so this isn't possible. Thus ther eis no contribution to the component obviusly wrong. Since the tetrads are added together can they be relabelled so: ( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma\mu}) otherwise I can't see why this would be nonzero, unless maybe i have made a mistake with the gamma matrices
 
pleasehelpmeno said:
\gamma^{0}\gamma^{\rho}-\gamma^{\rho}\gamma^{0}=0 so this isn't allowed.

This is not true. For example, in the Dirac basis

$$\gamma^0 = \begin{pmatrix} I & 0 \\ 0 & -I \end{pmatrix} ,~~~~\gamma^i \begin{pmatrix} 0 & \sigma^i \\ -\sigma^i & 0 \end{pmatrix},$$

you find

$$[\gamma^0,\gamma^i] = -2 \begin{pmatrix} \sigma^i & 0 \\ 0 & \sigma^i \end{pmatrix}.$$

I think that the ##{\Gamma^0}_{ij}## term is the only one that contributes, but you should check. I agree that this is fairly tricky to sort out.
 
Am I correct in thinking that the beta's and alpha's are linked?
 
pleasehelpmeno said:
Am I correct in thinking that the beta's and alpha's are linked?

They do not have to be equal. For example, ##e_{00} {e_1}^1 {\Gamma^0}_{11}## seems to be a non-vanishing contribution to the spin connection.
 
I have almost cracked it, I think it should be should there also be
\frac{1}{8}( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}) ( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma\mu})

The trouble is I get -\frac{1}{4}\frac{1}{a}[\gamma^{1}\begin{pmatrix} \sigma^{1} &amp; 0\\ 0&amp;\sigma^{1}<br /> \end{pmatrix}+\gamma^{2}\begin{pmatrix} \sigma^{2} &amp; 0\\ 0&amp;\sigma^{2}<br /> \end{pmatrix}+\gamma^{3}\begin{pmatrix} \sigma^{3} &amp; 0\\ 0&amp;\sigma^{3}<br /> \end{pmatrix}](a\frac{\dot{a}}{a}) (and another identical version for beta = 0.

Which when combined gives \frac{3}{2}<i>(\frac{\dot{a}}{a}) </i> It is very close to the expected result of \frac{3}{2}[\gamma^{0}](\frac{\dot{a}}{a}) but I can't see any obvius mistake, The only way to get a \gamma^0 term present is by choosing \mu=0[\itex] but that isn&#039;t allowed because then whole term would equal zero anyway? Can you think of my mistake or how to get this gamma zero term?
 
Last edited:

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