Is the Spin Connection Problem Affecting My Derivation of the Dirac Equation?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter pleasehelpmeno
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Connection Spin
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Dirac equation in a specific space-time metric and the implications of the spin connection on this derivation. Participants explore the definitions and properties of various components involved in the equation, including the metric coefficients and the spin connection terms.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the Dirac equation and questions the correctness of the metric coefficients and the form of the spin connection.
  • Another participant clarifies that the metric coefficients can be expressed as diagonal matrices, emphasizing the importance of index notation.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the correct form of the spin connection and its implications for the derivation.
  • There is a discussion about whether certain terms in the spin connection vanish due to symmetry, with participants suggesting that additional terms may need to be considered.
  • One participant questions how to interpret the matrix nature of the spin connection, indicating confusion about its role in the derivation.
  • Another participant suggests that the sum terms in the spin connection may lead to zero under certain conditions, prompting further exploration of the implications.
  • A later reply introduces a potential missing term in the spin connection, which could affect the overall derivation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of uncertainty regarding the definitions and implications of the spin connection and metric coefficients. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation or resolution of the issues raised.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential missing assumptions regarding the symmetry of terms in the spin connection and the dependence on specific definitions of the metric coefficients. The discussion remains open to further exploration of these mathematical details.

pleasehelpmeno
Messages
154
Reaction score
0
In trying to derive the Dirac equation in space-time (1,-a^{2},-a^{2},-a^{2}), I have read that the Dirac equation is (i\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}(\partial_{\mu}+\Gamma_{\mu})-m)\psi=0 where,

\Gamma_{\mu}=\frac{1}{2}\sum ^{\alpha \beta}e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}}e_{\beta \nu})

Is it correct that e_{\beta\nu} is equal to (1,a^{2},a^{2},a^{2}), e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu} equal to (1,1/a^{2},1/a^{2},1/a^{2}) and finally \sum^{\alpha\beta}=\frac{1}{4}(\gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} -\gamma^{\beta} \gamma^{\alpha})?

With my metric choice \gamma_{\mu} should equal \frac{3}{2}\frac{\dot{a}}{a}.

I don't see how with this \sum term that this is possible, have I made a mistake and can anyone help?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
pleasehelpmeno said:
In trying to derive the Dirac equation in space-time (1,-a^{2},-a^{2},-a^{2}), I have read that the Dirac equation is (i\bar{\gamma}^{\mu}(\partial_{\mu}+\Gamma_{\mu})-m)\psi=0 where,

\Gamma_{\mu}=\frac{1}{2}\sum ^{\alpha \beta}e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}}e_{\beta \nu})


Is it correct that e_{\beta\nu} is equal to (1,a^{2},a^{2},a^{2}), e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu} equal to (1,1/a^{2},1/a^{2},1/a^{2}) and finally \sum^{\alpha\beta}=\frac{1}{4}(\gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} -\gamma^{\beta} \gamma^{\alpha})?

These are both matrices, so it is more accurate to say that

$$e_{\beta\nu} = \mathrm{diag} (1,a^{2},a^{2},a^{2}),$$
$$e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu}=\mathrm{diag} (1,1/a^{2},1/a^{2},1/a^{2}).$$

Note that if these were not diagonal, then we would have to be careful about which indices labeled the rows vs columns.

With my metric choice \gamma_{\mu} should equal \frac{3}{2}\frac{\dot{a}}{a}.

I don't see how with this \sum term that this is possible, have I made a mistake and can anyone help?

Well, \gamma_{\mu} (or even \Gamma_{\mu}) is a collection of 4x4 matrices, so it cannot be equal to a scalar. However, it would appear that

$$e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu}\left(\frac{\partial}{\partial t}e_{\beta \nu}\right) = 6\frac{\dot{a}}{a} \mathrm{diag} (0,1,1,1),$$

where this is a matrix in the frame indices ##\alpha,\beta##. You can no doubt work out the other components and then multiply against ##\Sigma^{\alpha\beta}##.
 
Sorry I think I may have made a mistake isn't: e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu} equal to (1,1/a,1/a,1/a) and so on. I understand these e terms but I can't see how to deal with \sum ^{\alpha\beta} because surely it would give a gamma matrix but it shouldn't be there
 
pleasehelpmeno said:
Sorry I think I may have made a mistake isn't: e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu} equal to (1,1/a,1/a,1/a) and so on. I understand these e terms but I can't see how to deal with \sum ^{\alpha\beta} because surely it would give a gamma matrix but it shouldn't be there

You're right about the powers of ##a##, I missed that. So

$$e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu}\left(\frac{\partial}{\partial t}e_{\beta \nu}\right) = 3\frac{\dot{a}}{a} \mathrm{diag} (0,1,1,1),$$

The components of \sum ^{\alpha\beta} and ##\Gamma_\mu## are 4x4 matrices in spinor space, acting on the spinor ##\psi##. I'm not sure what it is that you're implying.
 
I know that \Gamma_{\mu}=\frac{3\dot{a}}{2a} so how can one get rid of the matrix?
 
pleasehelpmeno said:
I know that \Gamma_{\mu}=\frac{3\dot{a}}{2a} so how can one get rid of the matrix?

I'm not sure what you mean by "get rid of the matrix," ##\Gamma_\mu## is a matrix in the spinor space. What you've written down is possibly the value of the nonzero components, but we can't change the fact that it's a matrix.
 
thx I am still struggling with this sum term.
Surely when \alpha = 1 then \nu =1 then \beta =1.
and the same for \beta = to 2 and 3.

So when \beta= 1 wouldn't \sum ^{11} =0 and the same for beta =2,3 thus all these sum terms would become zero?
 
pleasehelpmeno said:
thx I am still struggling with this sum term.
Surely when \alpha = 1 then \nu =1 then \beta =1.
and the same for \beta = to 2 and 3.

So when \beta= 1 wouldn't \sum ^{11} =0 and the same for beta =2,3 thus all these sum terms would become zero?

I should have looked it up earlier, but you appear to be missing a term in your spin connection, namely

$$\Gamma_{\mu}=\frac{1}{2}\sum ^{\alpha \beta} \left( e_{\alpha}^{\mbox{ }\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}}e_{\beta \nu}) + {e_\alpha}_\nu {e_b}^\sigma {\Gamma^\nu}_{\sigma\mu}\right). $$

The first term might vanish by symmetry arguments (I could have also made a mistake), but presumably the 2nd term does not.
 
So \frac{1}{8}( \gamma^{\alpha}\gamma^{\beta} - \gamma^{\beta}\gamma^{\alpha}) ( e_{\alpha}^{\nu}(\frac{\partial}{\partial x^{\mu}})e_{\beta\nu}+e_{\alpha\nu}e_{\beta}^{\sigma}\Gamma^{\nu}_{\sigma\mu})
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
943
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K