Dark Energy contribution to plasma temperature in galaxy clusters?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of dark energy in influencing the plasma temperature within galaxy clusters, particularly through its relationship with the virial theorem and potential energy. Participants explore the implications of dark energy on temperature calculations as presented in specific research papers.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether dark energy contributes to the plasma temperature in galaxy clusters, referencing a specific equation from a research paper.
  • There is a discussion about the virial theorem and its implications for kinetic and potential energy, with some participants asserting that dark energy modifies potential energy and thus affects temperature.
  • One participant suggests that if dark energy makes potential energy less negative, it should lead to higher kinetic energy and temperature, while others argue that it actually reduces kinetic energy and temperature.
  • Confusion arises regarding the interpretation of an equation from the paper, with some asserting that it indicates an increase in temperature with higher dark energy density, while others argue it does not compare systems with and without dark energy directly.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the maximum size of a gravitating system based on dark energy density and how this affects temperature calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the impact of dark energy on plasma temperature, with no consensus reached on whether it increases or decreases temperature. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interpretation of the equations and their implications.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the relationship between dark energy, potential energy, and temperature, as well as the specific context of the equations referenced. The discussion highlights the complexity of these interactions without resolving them.

Suekdccia
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TL;DR
Dark Energy contribution to isothermal temperature of plasma in clusters of galaxies?
I have a question about this work called "Dark energy and key physical parameters of clusters of galaxies"*There, towards the end, the authors talk about the isothermal velocities and tempreature parameters of the gas and particles circulating between galaxies in clusters. In particular they calculate the isothermal plasma temperature (equation 37)I can note there is a contribution from a dark energy parameter in that equation (the cube root of the dark energy density value is present in the equation, which should give a large number as the dark energy density in space is small). I tried to ask the authors themselves, but they only told me that "*Temperature is defined from virial relation. It contains Dark Energy due to its antigravity*"Does it mean that dark energy contributes to the value of that temperature? Does dark energy help to increase the value of that temperature?* https://arxiv.org/abs/1206.1433
 
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Suekdccia said:
Does it mean that dark energy contributes to the value of that temperature?
Do you understand what the authors meant by "temperature is defined from virial relation"?
 
PeterDonis said:
Do you understand what the authors meant by "temperature is defined from virial relation"?
That the temperature is given by the virial theorem. If so, particles would reach a maximum turn-around radius and then fall into the overdensity and the potential energy would be transofrmed into kinetic energy. But how can dark energy contribute to this?
 
Suekdccia said:
That the temperature is given by the virial theorem.
Yes. And where does the virial theorem come from? How is it derived?

Suekdccia said:
If so, particles would reach a maximum turn-around radius and then fall into the overdensity and the potential energy would be transofrmed into kinetic energy.
No such thing has to happen for the virial theorem to apply. The virial theorem relates the time averages of potential energy and kinetic energy (and the latter is in turn directly related to temperature).

Suekdccia said:
how can dark energy contribute to this?
By modifying the potential energy. Looking at how the virial theorem is derived should make this evident.
 
PeterDonis said:
Yes. And where does the virial theorem come from? How is it derived?No such thing has to happen for the virial theorem to apply. The virial theorem relates the time averages of potential energy and kinetic energy (and the latter is in turn directly related to temperature).By modifying the potential energy. Looking at how the virial theorem is derived should make this evident.
Mmmh that is what I was thinking, if dark energy modifies the potential energy (presumably making it larger, as particles would be less bound and could reach a higher distance) then kinetic energy should be greater as well and thus temperature increases.But the authors themselves say in this paper (https://arxiv.org/abs/1109.1215, sections 3 & 4) that the potential energy (and therefore the kinetic energy) is decreased in the presence of dark energy (because when things fall into the overdensity, dark energy affects the gravitational pull, thus reducing the energy) so according to this, temperature should be lower (as kinetic energy is also reduced because there is less potential energy). This is what I don't really understand
 
Suekdccia said:
if dark energy modifies the potential energy (presumably making it larger, as particles would be less bound and could reach a higher distance)
"Larger" in the sense of "less negative", yes. But the virial theorem says that the time average of the kinetic energy is (half of) minus the time average of the potential energy. So a larger, i.e., less negative, potential energy means a smaller kinetic energy because of the minus sign.
 
PeterDonis said:
"Larger" in the sense of "less negative", yes. But the virial theorem says that the time average of the kinetic energy is (half of) minus the time average of the potential energy. So a larger, i.e., less negative, potential energy means a smaller kinetic energy because of the minus sign.
But then here what I understand is that dark energy ultimately reduces the kinetic energy, which should then reduce the temperature, not increase it (dark energy density seems to contribute to the temperature of the gas in the paper that I cited in my original question, so a larger dark energy density should mean that the isothermal teperature is larger as well)

If you look at eq. 37 (https://arxiv.org/abs/1206.1433) and you assume a larger value for dark energy density then the temperature increases not decreases
 
Last edited:
Suekdccia said:
what I understand is that dark energy ultimately reduces the kinetic energy, which should then reduce the temperature, not increase it
It reduces the temperature compared to a system that is otherwise the same, but without the dark energy. But that is not what is being done in the section of the paper where eq. 37 appears.

Suekdccia said:
If you look at eq. 37 (https://arxiv.org/abs/1206.1433) and you assume a larger value for dark energy density then the temperature increases not decreases
Yes, but this equation is not comparing a system with dark energy to an identical system without dark energy. So it is irrelevant to the comparison you have been asking about. To put this another way, eq. 37 is not giving the "contribution of dark energy" to the isothermal plasma temperature, which is what you have been asking about. It is just giving the overall temperature taking all contributions into account.

What eq. 37 is doing is assuming that the gravitating system is the maximum size that it can be based on the dark energy density; this size is called ##R_\Lambda## earlier in the paper. But that size decreases as the dark energy density increases; see eq. 6 in the paper. In fact, if we use eq. 6 to rewrite eq. 37 in terms of ##R_\Lambda##, we get

$$
T_{iso} = \frac{m}{3k} \frac{M}{R_\Lambda}
$$

In other words, as the dark energy density increases, the maximum possible size of the bound system gets smaller, which means it is more compact, and a more compact gravitating system will have a higher temperature.
 

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