Dark matter and SMBH orbital decay

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the dynamics of supermassive black holes (SMBHs) in relation to dark matter, particularly focusing on how SMBHs interact with their environment and the potential role of dark matter in their orbital decay. Participants explore the mechanisms of black hole migration, the effects of angular momentum exchange, and the implications of dark matter's properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the discovery of two SMBHs orbiting each other and questions the role of dark matter in their migration compared to gas and dust.
  • Another participant argues that the amount of dark matter falling into black holes is negligible and questions the ability of dark matter to be captured or utilized in the same way as other matter.
  • A participant suggests that dark matter could be slingshotted away from black holes, potentially contributing to their movement, but acknowledges that it requires proximity to the black hole.
  • There is a discussion about the mechanics of how particles can be flung away from black holes, comparing it to gravitational assists used in space missions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of dark matter in the dynamics of SMBHs, with no consensus reached on its significance compared to other forms of matter. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the mechanisms of dark matter interaction with black holes.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference previous calculations regarding dark matter's interaction with black holes, indicating a reliance on earlier discussions that may not be fully detailed in this thread.

newjerseyrunner
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I have a curiosity. I saw recently how a team of researchers discovered two super massive black holes orbiting each other in a far off galaxy. (Google it if you didn’t hear, fascinating how they did it.).

Anyway, I read a few things about unsolved mysteries of their formation and how SMBHs migrate onwards by kicking stars out, trading angular momentum. Then how they get stuck orbiting each other because there are no more stars to toss out and nobody seems to be sure how they progress from there. I read a few places how gas and dust may help a little but how that resource would be quickly gobbled up or blown out by the heat.

So far I haven’t seen anything about dark matter though. So my question is why would dark matter not be a better candidate than gas and dust? Since it doesn’t interact with light, it wouldn’t be blown away and it seems like the supply of it at the galactic core would be for all practical purposes infinite.
 
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The amount of dark matter falling into black holes is completely negligible. We had various calculations here in the past, the search function should find them.
newjerseyrunner said:
Since it doesn’t interact with light, it wouldn’t be blown away
Yes, but there is also nothing that would capture it.
 
mfb said:
The amount of dark matter falling into black holes is completely negligible. We had various calculations here in the past, the search function should find them.
Yes, but there is also nothing that would capture it.
But I’m not asking about it being captured. I’m asking about it being slingshotted away. The energy given to the accelerated particle is taken away from the orbital energy of the BH. Basically small thurst over a billion years.

I’m under the impression that black holes move to the centers of galaxies by flinging things out, not eating them. Why wouldn’t it do the same with dark matter?
 
Last edited:
To get slingshotted away it has to get close to the black hole. That is easier if there is a mechanism that captures the matter in the vicinity of the black hole pair.
Falling into the black hole and getting shot away are two possible outcomes that both bring (on average) the black holes closer together.

Yes there is a thrust, but it is completely negligible.
 
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A particle would get
newjerseyrunner said:
But I’m not asking about it being captured. I’m asking about it being slingshotted away. The energy given to the accelerated particle is taken away from the orbital energy of the BH. Basically small thurst over a billion years.

I’m under the impression that black holes move to the centers of galaxies by flinging things out, not eating them. Why wouldn’t it do the same with dark matter?

The black holes can fling both ways. From a distance a particle follows an elliptical orbit around the barycenter. If that orbit is a path "behind" one of the black holes then the particle flings out like a catapult round. If the orbit passes "in front" then the particle looses momentum and adds spin to the black hole pair. For example NASA has used Venus for gravity assist for missions to both Mercury and to Saturn.
 

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