Dark matter highlights extra dimensions

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of dark matter observations and their potential connection to extra dimensions in physics. Participants explore various theoretical frameworks, including the nature of dark matter and alternative gravitational theories, while addressing the challenges of empirical validation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a Nature article suggesting that three extra dimensions may alter gravitational effects at very short distances, potentially providing evidence for extra dimensions.
  • Lisa Randall's skepticism is noted, as she argues that while the idea may work, it could be an overstatement to claim it as evidence for extra dimensions.
  • Garth questions the speculative nature of dark matter models like WIMPs and suggests that the lack of dense dark matter halos at galaxy cores raises fundamental questions about current theories.
  • Simon argues that creating new forms of dark matter to fit observations lacks a fundamental basis, while also emphasizing the mathematical reasons for considering extra dimensions.
  • Some participants express that the theory of non-baryonic matter has not found empirical support, raising concerns about its validity.
  • There is a proposal that dark matter could be a field of particle/antiparticle pairs, which would necessitate a new model of gravitational interaction.
  • Others counter that postulating weakly-interacting particles is less ad hoc than alternative theories of gravity or extra dimensions.
  • Disagreements arise regarding the appropriateness of attacking conventional theories for being speculative while alternative models may also be seen as improvised solutions to fit data.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of dark matter and the validity of extra dimensions. There is no consensus on the best approach or explanation, with ongoing debate about the implications of empirical evidence and theoretical models.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in current models, including unresolved mathematical steps and the dependence on definitions of dark matter and gravity. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions and speculative ideas without reaching definitive conclusions.

  • #31
SpaceTiger said:
I may also have given a false impression of my views of alternative gravity. In fact, I don't think GR is the whole picture and I do think we'll have to alter gravity eventually. However, I get a bit irked with people who simply assume the truth of theories that have a lot of mathematical elegance. There are so many cases in the history of science where we've gone horribly wrong by trying to force our philosophical prejudices on nature. Geocentric models of the solar system, creationism, "ether", steady-state universes...the list goes on and on.

Yes I agree completely - that's what the scientific process is all about :smile:

Although of course some argue that the "ether" isn't completely dead - like Maurizio Consoli :rolleyes:


SpaceTiger said:
However, I would be committing the same sin to reject these theories outright, so let's just agree to withhold judgement for the time being.

Yes I don't think we have any fundamental disagreement - I just have some further maths to learn in areas from cosmology to QM before I can put anything forward for serious consideration. :bugeye:

Simon
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
  • #32
There are many cases of the present LCDM model being verified or confirmed by observations, but the trick is to find ways that this model and any others might be falsified.

You can always add another 'epicycle' to keep a theory on track, then mathematical and conceptual elegance and beauty may play an important part in identifying the way to go.

Garth
 
  • #33
poor little Earth monkeys-

dark matter= computronium (^___^)
 
Last edited:
  • #34
Garth said:
There are many cases of the present LCDM model being verified or confirmed by observations, but the trick is to find ways that this model and any others might be falsified.

Yes and that's the scientific process. I'd prefer to employ whatever common sense I have left at my disposal to understand the reality - and then subject it to any kind of falsification that relies on truth and reality and the likes. If its wrong I'm the first person to want to know !

Garth said:
You can always add another 'epicycle' to keep a theory on track, then mathematical and conceptual elegance and beauty may play an important part in identifying the way to go.


:smile:

Poor old Ptolemy. At least he knew the world was round and not flat. Some people still find the idea that he was mainstream educated thought in the time of Columbus controversial...
 
Last edited:
  • #35
um simon- it was just a little illuminating and interesting [to me] joke [ a natural idea based on the ideas in my sticky thread ]- and you are clearly an obsessive- there is no excuse for your offensive personal attacks-

if you actually did read the essays on my website and my post history here you will see that I do contribute mature and insightful ideas to this forum and that my contributions are generally well reguarded by the members and mods even when I go a little off the deep end [because I do it honestly and never allow myself to get fully suckered by crack-pottery- I'm sure that Warren would have disapproved of my comment- but ultimately it WAS just a joke]- you need to step back and put away the straw-man

and I expect an APOLOGY
 
Last edited:
  • #36
SimonA said:
Who are you ? What is your comment and how is it in any way relevant to this thread ? Donkeys have more honesty and dilligence than you. Cats are more dignified than you.

But most of all, I find monkeys to be interesting creatures, far more so than anything you manage to come up with in your seemingly nerdy little world. If you have an interesting view on technical IT related subjects then post them and then people may be interested in your opinion on things. But posting that link as your comment was clearly a sign of immaturity. I'm surprised a place like this has let your comment stand for so long - the people I have been discussing things with here are real people with a determination to understand things. Where do you fit into that ?

Alright, now I think you're crazy.
 
  • #37
setAI said:
um simon- it was just a little illuminating and interesting [to me] joke [ a natural idea based on the ideas in my sticky thread ]

Appologies SetAI - I didn't get your joke at all. Still don't actually but there was no need for me to reply as I did.

Looking over that sticky thread I do find this interesting -> http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0503/0503073.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #38
SpaceTiger said:
Alright, now I think you're crazy.

I agree completely :smile:
 
  • #39
And not a snit about the solid evidence that blows SimonA's ramblings out of the water? e.g., Supernova SNe Ia light curves? CMBR blackbody profile? Standard Candles? Primordial elemental abundance? Lyman Alpha Forest? Gunn-Peterson Trough? Large scale structure? ... and I'm only addressing the observational evidence. Cripes.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K