Darwin on the inheritance of learned characteristics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of inheritance of learned characteristics, particularly in the context of Darwin's theories and their interpretation over time. Participants explore the relationship between Darwin's ideas, Lamarckian inheritance, and recent findings in epigenetics, as well as the implications for evolutionary theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether Darwin suggested that learned emotional responses could be inherited, referencing a textbook that claims he did.
  • Another participant cites a recent study indicating that mice can inherit a learned fear of an odor, suggesting a potential link to epigenetic inheritance.
  • Some participants refer to historical experiments, such as those by August Weismann, which are said to have disproven Lamarckian inheritance.
  • There is a discussion about Darwin's principle of serviceable habits, with one participant expressing confusion about how this relates to their understanding of Darwinian evolution, particularly regarding the role of conscious behavior in mutation.
  • A participant raises the possibility that learned fears in animals, such as mice, may be influenced by ancestral experiences, questioning the limits of what can be inherited.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of Darwin's views on inheritance and the relevance of Lamarckian ideas. There is no consensus on whether Darwin supported the inheritance of learned characteristics, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of recent findings in epigenetics.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the historical context of Darwin's theories and how they have been interpreted in light of modern genetics. There are references to specific studies and experiments, but the details and implications of these studies are not fully agreed upon.

RabbitWho
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That should be Lamark! That should be epigenetics! Right? (I remember reading something about breeding rats with a fear of cherry blossom scent)

I thought that Darwin rejected all this, but maybe I am confused with how his work was later interpreted by other people in light of Mendel..?

My textbook says Darwin said in "The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals" that you could inherit learned emotional responses, is that true?


I mean, is it true that he said that?


My textbook Psicología de la Emoción, UNED:
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I don't know the history of Darwin, but you remind me of this recent article:
A study shows that when mice are taught to fear an odor, both their offspring and the next generation are born fearing it. The gene for an olfactory receptor activated by the odor is specifically demethylated in the germ line and the olfactory circuits for detecting the odor are enhanced.

Lamarck revisited: epigenetic inheritance of ancestral odor fear conditioning
http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v17/n1/full/nn.3603.html
 
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Enigman said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_emotion
It's Darwin all right.
And the experiment that did away with Lamarck was:

Thanks!



The first of the three is the "principle of serviceable habits," which he defined as useful habits reinforced previously, and then inherited by offspring. He used as an example contracting of eyebrows (furrowing the brow), which he noted is serviceable to prevent too much light from entering the eyes.


That's the opposite of what I associate with Darwin. I would have associated him with the idea that we evolved to have light hurt our eyes, and to avoid pain, but not that furrowing our brow out of noticing that furrowing the brow worked to block out light would somehow cause a mutation that would make our children do it instinctively.
I thought of all Darwinian evolution as being the result of mutation, never the conscious choice of, say the giraffe, to stretch his neck every day to try and reach food, until his DNA codes for a longer neck... i didn't think the mutations were supposed to be caused by our behaviour, I thought they were supposed to be random.
Again, I mean, according to Darwinian evolution.

I wonder if those mice inherited a fear of having their tails cut off. I think I remember a study saying you can teach mice to be afraid of tastes and smells but not noises and flashing lights, and you can teach birds to be afraid of noises and flashing lights but not tastes and smells. Just because the ancestors of the mice had to worry a lot more about getting poisoned and the birds had to worry a lot more about predators.. I am probably remembering the details wrong. I know I read about it in a psychology book called "Motivation" by Phil Evans.
 

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