Deciphering Decay Chains: Understanding the Complexity of Radioactive Decay

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter nmsurobert
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Decay
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the complexities of radioactive decay chains, specifically focusing on the decay of isotopes such as 238U and its subsequent transformations. Participants explore the implications of half-lives, the behavior of daughter isotopes, and the mathematical modeling of decay processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the decay process of 238U, questioning how the half-lives of intermediate isotopes affect the overall decay chain.
  • Another participant notes that while U-234 has a half-life of 246,000 years, it is relatively short compared to the half-life of 238U, suggesting that the decay chain's dynamics are complex.
  • Some participants propose that once equilibrium is reached in a decay chain, the activities of daughter isotopes can be considered equal to that of the parent isotope, allowing for simplifications in calculations.
  • There is a discussion about the mathematical modeling of decay chains, with one participant noting that the decay may not follow a simple exponential pattern due to the varying rates of different reactions.
  • Another participant presents a detailed mathematical approach to modeling the decay of isotopes in a chain, highlighting the complexity of deriving forms for subsequent isotopes.
  • A later reply introduces a specific decay chain involving 244Pu, emphasizing that simplifications do not hold in this case due to the relative half-lives of the isotopes involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding the decay chains, with no consensus reached on the best approach to model or interpret the decay processes. Multiple competing views on the implications of half-lives and equilibrium exist throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the mathematical modeling of decay chains can become complex, especially when considering multiple isotopes with different half-lives. There is also mention of the limitations of using simplified models in certain decay scenarios.

nmsurobert
Messages
288
Reaction score
36
I've been reading about decay chains and I have confused myself on how decay works.

Take a sample of 238U for example.. its half-life is 4.5 billion years. At that point half of the sample is now 238U and the other half is 206Pb.
But looking at a decay chain, (and maybe I am reading it wrong) it shows that the change from 238U to 234Th is 4.5 billion years. Are the other half lives in the chain are so short relative to first step that we are quickly left with half 238U and half 206Pb?

Anytime I see figures of this half life, only first first and last isotopes are shown. There is never a discussion about the series. I started reading about this because I wanted a physical answer to how do we know the half life of 232Th without using the decay formula.

This is the chain I've been looking at. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Nuclear/radser.html#c3
 
Physics news on Phys.org
As your chart shows, the next longest isotope is U-234 at 246,000 years. Long for us, but practically instantaneous with respect to a few billion.

nmsurobert said:
how do we know the half life of 232Th without using the decay formula.

We look it up. It's 14 billion years.
 
Also, for series like this, eventually the activities ##A_i = \lambda_i N_i## of all of the unstable daughter isotopes in the chain equalise to that of the mother isotope (##^{238}\text{U}##). Once this equilibrium has been reached we can effectively "ignore" all of the isotopes in the middle, since the ##^{206}\text{Pb}## will be produced at exactly the same rate that the ##^{238}\text{U}## is used up.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: nmsurobert
etotheipi said:
Also, for series like this, eventually the activities ##A_i = \lambda_i N_i## of all of the unstable daughter isotopes in the chain equalise to that of the mother isotope (##^{238}\text{U}##). Once this equilibrium has been reached we can effectively "ignore" all of the isotopes in the middle, since the ##^{206}\text{Pb}## will be produced at exactly the same rate that the ##^{238}\text{U}## is used up.
I thought that would be the case. I tried to scribble some math and show that, but I was just frustrating myself even more. Thought I'd come here and ask the pros. Thanks.
 
nmsurobert said:
I tried to scribble some math and show that, but I was just frustrating myself even more.
Me too!
If a chain consists of a set of different reactions with different rates r for the different steps then the decay will not necessarily be a simple exponential. Thats just a bit of Maths but I think it has to apply.
A(t) = A0 Exp(r1/t) where r1 is the rate of one reaction but then there will be A0 - A(t) of product of that reaction which will be changing and decaying at its own rate. Overall that doesn't look like a simple exponential decay so it won't have a simple half life. But the r for one very long r step would dominate so you would often get near enough a half life.

If I really wanted to know the answer then I would probably reach for Excel. That would give a fair answer for a two step chain. Trouble is that every time I do reach for Excel, I find the basic skills are getting more and more tired and forgotten. Sad thing is that there's probably a bit of long forgotten book work that would allow one to do it analytically.
 
For the first two in the chain, e.g. ##N_1## and ##N_2##, then we could say something like$$dN_{2} = A_{1}dt - A_{2}dt = \lambda_{1}N_{1}dt - \lambda_2 N_2 dt$$ $$\frac{dN_{2}}{dt} = \lambda_{1}N_{1} - \lambda_2 N_2= \lambda_{1}N_{1}(0)e^{-\lambda_{1}t} - \lambda_2 N_2$$We can multiply through by ##e^{\lambda_2 t}##,$$e^{\lambda_2 t}\frac{dN_{2}}{dt} + e^{\lambda_2 t} \lambda_2 N_2 = \lambda_1 N_1(0)e^{(\lambda_2-\lambda_1) t}$$ $$N_2(t) e^{\lambda_2 t} = \lambda_1 N_1(0) \int e^{(\lambda_2 - \lambda_1)t} dt = \lambda_1 N_1(0) \frac{1}{\lambda_2 - \lambda_1} e^{(\lambda_2 - \lambda_1)t} + c$$Now if we know ##N_2(t)## maybe it is possible to obtain the form for ##N_3(t)##, and so on... but it looks like it might get a little tricky!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sophiecentaur
We actually have a quite notable decay chain where the simplifications do NOT hold.
244Pu->240U+α 80 million years
240U->240Np+β+νˇe 14 h
240Np->240Pu+β+νˇe 62 min
240Pu->236U+α 6 560 years
236U->232Th+α 23,4 million years
232Th->228Ra+α 14 050 million years

Note that since the half-life of 236U is shorter than, but a substantial fraction of, the half-life of 244Pu, the activity of 236U relative to that of 244Pu will stabilize at a level substantially higher than that of unity.
The half-life of 232Th is longer than that of 244Pu and therefore the ratio of 232Th activity to 244Pu grows without bound.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: anorlunda and sophiecentaur
etotheipi said:
but it looks like it might get a little tricky!
. . . so I don't need to feel bad about it!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K