Definite Integration of a concave upward function- Inequality

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definite integration of a concave upward function and the implications of its properties, particularly focusing on inequalities related to its second derivative. Participants explore various approaches to understanding the behavior of such functions through integration and the relationships between derivatives and function values.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the upper bound of the integral, specifically whether it is "9".
  • There is a suggestion that the secant line must lie above the curve for a concave upward function, but initial attempts to utilize this condition have not led to clear conclusions.
  • One participant proposes starting with the condition that the second derivative is positive and asks what can be inferred about the function from this.
  • Another participant notes that integrating the inequality related to the second derivative leads to the conclusion that the function is concave upward, but raises concerns about contradictions when considering negative functions with positive derivatives.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of integrating the first derivative and the necessity of limits in establishing relationships between functions.
  • A later reply introduces the idea that if a function is concave up, it must lie beneath its secant line, prompting further exploration of the results from integrating both sides of this inequality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of integrating the second derivative and the relationships between the function and its secant line. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing approaches and interpretations presented.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the behavior of the function and its derivatives, as well as the conditions under which certain inequalities hold. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

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On the last integral, is the upper bound "9"?
 
Rido12 said:
On the last integral, is the upper bound "9"?
Yes.
 
Hello and welcome to MHB! :D

Can you tell us what you've tried or what your thoughts are on how to begin, so our helpers have an idea where you are stuck and then can provide better help?
 
MarkFL said:
Hello and welcome to MHB! :D

Can you tell us what you've tried or what your thoughts are on how to begin, so our helpers have an idea where you are stuck and then can provide better help?
Thank you so much!
I began with the condition that the secant must lie above the curve at all points if the curve is concave upward but that seem to lead nowhere. I also tried to utilise the fact that the double derivative of f(X) will be positive but to no avail.
Any help will be appreciated.
 
I think I would begin with the minimal case:

$$0<f^{\prime\prime}(x)$$

So, integrating, what can you say about $f$?
 
MarkFL said:
I think I would begin with the minimal case:

$$0<f^{\prime\prime}(x)$$

So, integrating, what can you say about $f$?

Wouldn't integrating this inequality conclude the same thing as what we are given, that f is a concave upward function?
 
mathisfun said:
Wouldn't integrating this inequality conclude the same thing as what we are given, that f is a concave upward function?

What did you get when integrating?
 
MarkFL said:
What did you get when integrating?

That f(x) is greater than zero, but that seems to be contradictory as a negative function may also have positive derivative. :(
 
  • #10
Let's begin with:

$$0<f^{\prime\prime}(x)$$

And so, on $$[1,k]$$ where $$1<k\in\mathbb{R}$$ there must be some constant $C$ such that:

$$C<f^{\prime}(x)$$

What happens if you integrate again?
 
  • #11
MarkFL said:
Let's begin with:

$$0<f^{\prime\prime}(x)$$

And so, on $$[1,k]$$ where $$1<k\in\mathbb{R}$$ there must be some constant $C$ such that:

$$C<f^{\prime}(x)$$

What happens if you integrate again?
If f1(X)>f2(x)
doesn't implies that the indefinite integration of f1(x) will be greater than f2(x). This is only applicable when both sides are integrated within limits and thus when integrating from 0 to x, constant gets eliminated.
 
  • #12
Let's try another approach...you mentioned that if the function is concave up, then it must lie beneath its secant line, or:

$$f(x)<\frac{f(b)-f(a)}{b-a}(x-a)+f(a)$$

What do you find upon integrating both sides from $a$ to $b$?
 

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