Definition of two homeomorphic spaces

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition of homeomorphic spaces in topology, specifically examining the implications of certain conditions on continuous functions between two spaces. Participants explore the validity of assumptions regarding homeomorphism based on function compositions and continuity, while also discussing examples that illustrate the nuances of compactness and continuity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that if two continuous functions satisfy f ° (g ° f) = f, then X and Y are homeomorphic, but this assumption is challenged by others.
  • Another participant provides a counterexample using X = [-1,1] and Y = (-1,1), noting that these spaces are not homeomorphic due to differences in compactness.
  • It is argued that the statement f ° (g ° f) = f does not imply g ° f = IX, as additional conditions on continuous maps are necessary.
  • Participants discuss a specific function f(x,y) that maps a punctured sphere onto ℝ and question how to verify that its inverse composition is an identity map.
  • Concerns are raised about the continuity of the function f, particularly regarding the point (0,1) and its implications for the identity map.
  • There is confusion regarding the homeomorphism between S1 minus a point and ℝ, with participants expressing differing interpretations of the implications of their examples.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of the function compositions for homeomorphism. Multiple competing views remain regarding the conditions necessary for two spaces to be homeomorphic and the role of compactness in these discussions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for a clearer understanding of compactness and continuity in the context of homeomorphism, as well as the specific behavior of functions at critical points.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners in topology, particularly those interested in the properties of continuous functions and homeomorphic spaces.

Streltsy
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Given this definition of two homeomorphic spaces,

Definition 1.7.2. Two topological spaces X and Y are said to be homeomorphic if there are
continuous map f : X → Y and g : Y → X such that
f ° g = IY and g ° f = IX.

Suppose I know f and g are both continuous. Would it be safe to assume then, that if
f ° (g ° f) = f, X and Y are homeomorphic?

Here's my reasoning:
f ° (g ° f) = f implies g ° f = IX and due to the associativity of a composition,
f ° (g ° f) = (f ° g) ° f = f or f ° g = IY.
 
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Nope. Take X = [-1,1] and Y = (-1,1). These spaces are not homeomorphic since one is compact and the other is not. Now let f:X→Y be the constant function zero and let g:Y→X be any continuous function. Then f(g(f(x))) = f(x) = 0 for all x in X.
 
Streltsy said:
f ° (g ° f) = f implies g ° f = IX

This statement is untrue. In order for ##g\circ f = I_X##, we must have ##h\circ (g\circ f) = h## for all continuous maps ## h: X \rightarrow X##.

In addition to jgens example, we could consider ##X=S^2## and ##Y=S^1##, with ##f## the map ##(\theta,\phi)\mapsto \phi## and ##g## the map ##\phi\rightarrow (\pi/2,\phi)##. This illustrates the fact that it can be that ##f\circ(g\circ f)=f## even when the image of ##g\circ f## does not even include the whole space ##X##.
 
Sorry, I haven't gotten to the definition of compactness. Although I believe I understand why my assumption is wrong.

I have another question; though I'm not sure if it would belong in this section.

Suppose I have a function f(x,y) = 2x/(1-y), that maps the sphere (minus a pole), S1 = {(x, y) ∈ ℝ2 | x2+(y−1/2)2 = 1/4} \ {(0,1)} onto ℝ, and its inverse, f−1(x) = (2x/(x2 + 4), x2/(x2 + 4)).

How can I verify that f−1(x) ° f(x,y) is an identity map?
because, I know that f(x,y) ° f−1(x) returns x, and that is how I verified f ° f-1 was an identity map, but the other returns a coordinate which isn't just (x,y).
 
Streltsy said:
Suppose I have a function f(x,y) = 2x/(1-y), that maps the sphere (minus a pole), S1 = {(x, y) ∈ ℝ2 | x2+(y−1/2)2 = 1/4} \ {(0,1)} onto ℝ, and its inverse, f−1(x) = (2x/(x2 + 4), x2/(x2 + 4)).

How can I verify that f−1(x) ° f(x,y) is an identity map?
because, I know that f(x,y) ° f−1(x) returns x, and that is how I verified f ° f-1 was an identity map, but the other returns a coordinate which isn't just (x,y).

This example is closely related to jgens' example and the spaces are not homeomorphic for the same reason. The circle is a compact manifold, but ##\mathbb{R}## is not. Compactness is a concept that needs some notions of topology to define, but here it boils down to the fact that we only need a finite number of open intervals to describe the circle. For ##\mathbb{R}##, no finite number of open intervals can cover it, since the point at infinity is always outside of whatever finite collection of open intervals we come up with.

It is precisely the point ##(0,1)## where ##f## was not defined that is the problem (so ##f## is not continuous). Points on the circle approaching this point are mapped towards the point at infinity on ##\mathbb{R}##. Since ##f^{-1}\circ f## is not defined everywhere on the circle, it cannot be the identity map.

There is a notion of "adding the point at infinity" to the real line, called the one-point compactification. The resulting space is homeomorphic to the circle.
 
With respect to the continuity of f; doesn't the fact that f: S1 \ {(0,1)} → ℝ safeguard against discontinuity? The domain of f does not include y = 1 so, from my understanding, f-1 ° f would be defined everywhere in the domain of f.

Still, I suppose I have to arrive at the definition of compactness and attempt to understand it.

Also, the purpose of my question was rather to acquire a procedure, through which I can verify that if a function composition g ° f returns an ordered pair (x,y) for example, g ° f is an identity map.
 
Streltsy said:
With respect to the continuity of f; doesn't the fact that f: S1 \ {(0,1)} → ℝ safeguard against discontinuity? The domain of f does not include y = 1 so, from my understanding, f-1 ° f would be defined everywhere in the domain of f.

We can delete the point ##(0,1)##, but then we are mapping an open interval to ##\mathbb{R}##. Also, in either case, ##f\circ f^{-1}## is not defined at the point at infinity, since that point should be mapped to ##(0,1)##.

Still, I suppose I have to arrive at the definition of compactness and attempt to understand it.

It's very important to understand, especially for the intuition it gives in these cases. It tells us that the circle or open interval cannot be homeomorphic to the real line. Explicitly the obstruction is due to the behavior of ##f## and ##f^{-1}## at the special points and it's also very useful to see that directly.

Also, the purpose of my question was rather to acquire a procedure, through which I can verify that if a function composition g ° f returns an ordered pair (x,y) for example, g ° f is an identity map.

Well this boils down to the behavior of the function and it's inverse at the special points. Also, I understand where it comes from in the construction, but it's important to remember that the ordered pair ##(x,y)## satisfies a constraint, so there is really a single parameter. In terms of the single parameter the circle is the interval ##[0,1)## where points are identified under ##x \sim x +1##, while the domain of ##f## is homeomorphic to the interval ##(0,1)##.
 
I am confused. Both S1-* and R are homeomorphic (where * is any one-point set) but it looks like fzero is saying otherwise. Hopefully I am just misunderstanding something here.
 
jgens said:
I am confused. Both S1-* and R are homeomorphic (where * is any one-point set) but it looks like fzero is saying otherwise. Hopefully I am just misunderstanding something here.

You're right. My logic above was faulty. The tangent function provides another homeomorphism from an open interval to the real line.
 
  • #10
Which of your claims should I still consider? (With all due respect).
 

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