Degenerate Perturbation Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Degenerate Perturbation Theory (DPT) in quantum mechanics, specifically addressing the nature of eigenstates and corrections to wavefunctions in the context of perturbations. Participants explore the implications of linear combinations of degenerate states and the necessity of further calculations to obtain first-order corrections.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the good quantum numbers in DPT correspond to eigenstates of a conserved quantity under perturbation, referencing Griffiths' text.
  • Another participant argues that if simultaneous eigenstates of H0 and H' could be found, perturbation theory would be unnecessary, as those states would be the eigenstates of the full Hamiltonian.
  • It is suggested that linear combinations of degenerate states diagonalize H' only within the degenerate subspace, and thus may not be eigenstates of H' outside that subspace.
  • A participant seeks clarification on whether the linear combinations are zero-order solutions to the perturbation.
  • It is confirmed that first-order perturbed eigenstates require further calculations using the chosen basis of H0 eigenstates.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of using symmetric and antisymmetric combinations of states, questioning their accuracy if they are only correct to zeroth order.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for further calculations to obtain first-order corrections, but there is ongoing discussion regarding the implications of using zeroth-order solutions and the justification for adding spin wavefunctions to these states. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precision of these approaches.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the accuracy of zeroth-order solutions and the implications of using symmetric and antisymmetric combinations in the context of excited states of Helium. There is a lack of consensus on the justification for these methods given their potential imprecision.

Niles
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Hi

I am reading about Degenerate Perburbation Theory, and I have come across a question. We all know that the good quantum numbers in DPT are basically the eigenstates of the conserved quantity under the perburbation. As Griffiths he says in his book: "... look around for some hermitian operator A that communtes with H0 and H'". Now say I form a linear combination ψ of my (unperturbed) degenerate states. It satisfies

H0ψ = E0ψ.

Assuming it is the "correct" linear combination in the sense that it diagonalizes my perturbation H', I can write

(H0+H')ψ = Eψ,

where E = E0+ΔE. But this is my question: If the relation (H0+H')ψ = Eψ holds, then what about any first order correction to the wavefunction due to the perturbation? An example of this is the Helium-atom. Here we find that the good linear combinations are symmetric and anti-symmetric, but they are only correct to zeroth order, right?Niles.
 
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I may be missing your point here, but: If we could really find simultaneous eigenstates of H0 and H' we wouldn't need to use perturbation theory, because these states would be the eigenstates of the full Hamiltonian, which are what we are trying to find.

When we use degenerate pertubation theory, it is because there is some subspace of states that are degenerate with respect to H0. We then take linear combinations of these states that diagonalize H' *within that subspace*--that is, the matrix elements of H' between these linear combinations should be zero. But the matrix element of H' between one of these linear combinations and some other state that isn't in the degenerate subspace will in general be nonzero. Thus in general these linear combinations we have taken will *not* be eigenstates of H'. We haven't diagonalized H', we've only diagonalized it within the degenerate subspace.
 
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying that for me. So these linear combination are still only zero-order solutions to the perturbation?
 
Yes; to get the first-order perturbed eigenstates you still have to do the regular perturbation theory calculation, just now you do it with your carefully chosen basis of H0 eigenstates.
 
The_Duck said:
Yes; to get the first-order perturbed eigenstates you still have to do the regular perturbation theory calculation, just now you do it with your carefully chosen basis of H0 eigenstates.

Thanks for that! OK, so in the case of e.g. the exicted states of Helium where we find the antisymmetric and symmetric linear combinations, then they are still only correct to zero order. But how does this justify that we just tack on a symmetric/antisymmetric spin wavefunction to these? I mean, if they are only correct to zeroth order, it must be very imprecise.
 

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