Derivation of the expansion of the potential in rectangular coordinates

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the expansion of the potential function ##\Phi(x)## in rectangular coordinates, specifically focusing on the mathematical formulation and the Taylor series expansion of the term ##1/|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|##. The context is rooted in electromagnetic theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the need to derive the potential expansion and explore the Taylor series approach. Some express difficulty in understanding specific terms in the expansion, particularly the dipole and quadrupole terms. Others suggest looking into existing resources, such as Jackson's text, for guidance.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing insights about the derivation process and specific terms involved. Some have provided partial expansions and are encouraging others to continue working through the calculations. There is a recognition of the complexity of the problem, and participants are actively engaging with each other's contributions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention constraints such as time limitations and the nature of the inquiry, indicating that while the original poster is seeking assistance, they are also motivated by personal learning rather than formal homework requirements.

MathematicalPhysicist
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Homework Statement


I want to derive the expansion of ##\Phi(x)## in rectangular coordinates:

$$ \Phi(\vec{x}) = \frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon_0} \bigg[ \frac{q}{r}+\frac{\vec{p}\cdot \vec{x}}{r^3}+\frac{1}{2}\sum_{i,j} Q_{ij} \frac{x_ix_j}{r^5}+\ldots\bigg]$$

Homework Equations


$$\vec{p}= \int \vec{x}' \rho (\vec{x}') d^3 x'$$
$$Q_{ij}=\int (3x_i'x_j'-r'^2\delta_{ij})\rho (\vec{x}')d^3x'$$
$$q=\int \rho(\vec{x}') dx'$$
$$\Phi(\vec{x})=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0} \int \frac{\rho (\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}d^3 x'$$

The Attempt at a Solution


I don't have time to make the calculations by myself, if you know some derivation in the net of this identity, one needs to expand the ##1/|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|## by Taylor series.

I tried googling for the answer but didn't find a derivation in the notation of Jackson's.

Thanks in advance!
 
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MathematicalPhysicist said:
I don't have time to make the calculations by myself
Sorry but, to be frank, you need to make time. The point of homework is to learn how to solve the problems on your own.
MathematicalPhysicist said:
one needs to expand the 1/|⃗x−⃗x′|1/|x→−x→′|1/|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'| by Taylor series.
If you are using Jackon's ED text, he shows the expansion in equation 3.70.
 
NFuller said:
Sorry but, to be frank, you need to make time. The point of homework is to learn how to solve the problems on your own.

If you are using Jackon's ED text, he shows the expansion in equation 3.70.
Strictly speaking it's not HW, I finished my EM coursework this last semester; It's just for my own knowledge.
Someone already has done the calculation I assume, just need to look it out.
 
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Strictly speaking it's not HW, I finished my EM coursework this last semester; It's just for my own knowledge.
Alright, I assumed it was since this is posted in the homework forum.
MathematicalPhysicist said:
Someone already has done the calculation I assume, just need to look it out.
The expansion is
$$\frac{1}{|\mathbf{x}-\mathbf{x}^{\prime}|}=4\pi\sum_{l=0}^{\infty}\sum_{m=-l}^{l}\frac{1}{2l+1}\frac{r_{<}^{l}}{r_{>}^{l+1}}Y^{*}_{lm}(\theta^{\prime},\phi^{\prime})Y_{lm}(\theta,\phi)$$
You just need to insert this into
$$\Phi(\vec{x})=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0} \int \frac{\rho (\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}d^3 x'$$
and evaluate the first three terms. Then, use the definitions of ##q##, ##\mathbf{p}##, and ##Q_{ij}## to replace those terms which will give you the final expansion for ##\Phi##.
 
NFuller said:
Alright, I assumed it was since this is posted in the homework forum.

The expansion is
$$\frac{1}{|\mathbf{x}-\mathbf{x}^{\prime}|}=4\pi\sum_{l=0}^{\infty}\sum_{m=-l}^{l}\frac{1}{2l+1}\frac{r_{<}^{l}}{r_{>}^{l+1}}Y^{*}_{lm}(\theta^{\prime},\phi^{\prime})Y_{lm}(\theta,\phi)$$
You just need to insert this into
$$\Phi(\vec{x})=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0} \int \frac{\rho (\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}d^3 x'$$
and evaluate the first three terms. Then, use the definitions of ##q##, ##\mathbf{p}##, and ##Q_{ij}## to replace those terms which will give you the final expansion for ##\Phi##.
If it were a simple plug and chug I would have done it by myself; but there are some terms that aren't so simple.
 
MathematicalPhysicist said:
If it were a simple plug and chug I would have done it by myself; but there are some terms that aren't so simple.
It is that simple. Which terms are you having trouble with? How far have you got?
 
NFuller said:
It is that simple. Which terms are you having trouble with? How far have you got?
I can see how you get the term ##q/r##, but not the other two terms.

And it's not like I don't have other tasks at hand besides this, I am quite tired... :-(
 
MathematicalPhysicist said:
I can see how you get the term q/rq/rq/r, but not the other two terms.
To get the dipole term ##\Phi(\mathbf{x})_{d}## for example, we evaluate
$$\int Y_{lm}^{*}(\theta^{\prime},\phi^{\prime})r^{\prime l}\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}$$
for ##l=1## and ##m=0,1##. For ##m=0##,
$$\int Y_{1,0}^{*}(\theta^{\prime},\phi^{\prime})r^{\prime}\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}=\sqrt{\frac{3}{4\pi}}\int z^{\prime}\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}=\sqrt{\frac{3}{4\pi}}p_{z}$$
For ##m=1##,
$$\int Y_{1,1}^{*}(\theta^{\prime},\phi^{\prime})r^{\prime}\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}=-\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}\int (x^{\prime}-iy^{\prime})\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}=-\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}(p_{x}-ip_{y})$$
Plugging this in for ##\Phi##
$$\Phi(\mathbf{x})_{d}=\frac{1}{\epsilon}\left[\frac{1}{3}\sqrt{\frac{3}{4\pi}}p_{z}\sqrt{\frac{3}{4\pi}}\frac{\text{cos}(\theta)}{r^{2}}+\frac{1}{3}\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}(p_{x}-ip_{y})\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}\frac{\text{sin}(\theta)e^{-i\phi}}{r^{2}}-\frac{1}{3}\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}(p_{x}-ip_{y})\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}\frac{\text{sin}(\theta)e^{i\phi}}{r^{2}}\right]$$
This is simply
$$\Phi(\mathbf{x})_{d}=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon}\frac{\mathbf{p}\cdot\mathbf{x}}{r^{3}}$$
Can you work out the quadrupole terms?
 
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I should have known it would be that much tedious, I'll continue from there, thanks.
 
  • #10
NFuller said:
To get the dipole term ##\Phi(\mathbf{x})_{d}## for example, we evaluate
$$\int Y_{lm}^{*}(\theta^{\prime},\phi^{\prime})r^{\prime l}\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}$$
for ##l=1## and ##m=0,1##. For ##m=0##,
$$\int Y_{1,0}^{*}(\theta^{\prime},\phi^{\prime})r^{\prime}\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}=\sqrt{\frac{3}{4\pi}}\int z^{\prime}\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}=\sqrt{\frac{3}{4\pi}}p_{z}$$
For ##m=1##,
$$\int Y_{1,1}^{*}(\theta^{\prime},\phi^{\prime})r^{\prime}\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}=-\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}\int (x^{\prime}-iy^{\prime})\rho(\mathbf{x}^{\prime})d^{3}x^{\prime}=-\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}(p_{x}-ip_{y})$$
Plugging this in for ##\Phi##
$$\Phi(\mathbf{x})_{d}=\frac{1}{\epsilon}\left[\frac{1}{3}\sqrt{\frac{3}{4\pi}}p_{z}\sqrt{\frac{3}{4\pi}}\frac{\text{cos}(\theta)}{r^{2}}+\frac{1}{3}\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}(p_{x}-ip_{y})\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}\frac{\text{sin}(\theta)e^{-i\phi}}{r^{2}}-\frac{1}{3}\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}(p_{x}-ip_{y})\sqrt{\frac{3}{8\pi}}\frac{\text{sin}(\theta)e^{i\phi}}{r^{2}}\right]$$
This is simply
$$\Phi(\mathbf{x})_{d}=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon}\frac{\mathbf{p}\cdot\mathbf{x}}{r^{3}}$$
Can you work out the quadrupole terms?
You should also have a ##m=-1## since the inner sum goes from ##-l## to ##l##.
 
  • #11
MathematicalPhysicist said:
You should also have a ##m=-1## since the inner sum goes from ##-l## to ##l##.
Yes, it's in there. I didn't explicitly show it since
$$Y_{l,-m}(\theta,\phi)=(-1)^{m}Y_{l,m}^{*}(\theta,\phi)$$
 

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