Derive an expression for mean free path from survival eqn exp(-x/λ)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving an expression for the mean free path from the survival equation exp(-x/λ). Participants explore the relationship between molecular collisions and the probability of survival over a distance, incorporating concepts from probability theory and calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the mean free path can be expressed as λ = c/πσ²cn, questioning how to derive it from exp(-x/λ).
  • Another participant introduces the probability of no collision in a small distance Δx as 1 - n(πσ²)Δx, prompting a calculation for the probability of survival over a finite distance x.
  • A follow-up post indicates that once the expression P(X>x) = e^(-x/λ) is established, the cumulative distribution function can be derived, leading to the probability density function f(x) = F'(x).
  • One participant confirms they derived P = e^(-x/λ) using a Taylor series expansion but seeks clarification on deriving the probability density function and calculating the mean free path.
  • Another participant explains the process of deriving the probability density function and the mean free path, referencing standard approaches in probability theory.
  • It is noted that the problem may be somewhat advanced for students from other disciplines, such as Biology or Chemistry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various methods and approaches to derive the mean free path, with no consensus on a single method being preferred. Some participants provide hints and guidance, while others share their own derivations, indicating a mix of agreement on the process but disagreement on the starting points and methods.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of variables and the mathematical steps involved in deriving the expressions. Some participants mention that the problem may be incomplete or unclear in its requirements.

P4Penguin
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Homework Statement
The probability of gas molecules surviving a distance x without collision is given by exp(-x/λ), use this expression to prove λ = 1/nπσ² where σ = mean diameter and n = number density.
Relevant Equations
f(x) = exp(-x/λ)
If the distance between the centres of two molecules is σ, then imagining a a cylinder with radius σ the number of molecules can be given by πσ²cn where c = average velocity.
So mean free path can be given by λ = c/πσ²cn = 1/nπσ². But do I derive it from exp(-x/λ)?
 
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I'll give you a hint to get started: The probability of no collision in distance ## \Delta x ## is ##1-n (\pi \sigma^2) \Delta x ##. What is the probability it survives a finite distance ## x ## with no collision? The rest is just a little calculus with the exponential ## e ##.

Edit: Note: ## n (\pi \sigma^2) \Delta x ## is the probability of a collision in a very small distance ##\Delta x ##. Observe that ## (\pi \sigma^2) \Delta x ## is the volume ## \Delta V ## that gets spanned in a distance ## \Delta x ##, and for small volumes, the probability of another particle in that volume will be ## n \Delta V ##.
 
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and a follow-on: Once you show that ## P(X>x)=e^{-x/\lambda} ##, then (what is called a probability distribution function) ##F(x)=P(X \leq x) =1-e^{-x/\lambda} ##. You then take a derivative to get the probability density function ## f(x) =F'(x) ##, and it is routine from there to calculate the mean free path.

Note: It is a little unclear from the statement of the problem exactly what they are looking for, but with what I gave you, you should be able to tie it all together. The problem is somewhat incomplete if all they are wanting is what I gave you here in post 3...

I suggest working it starting with post 2 above=that seems to be the more logical way of proceeding, rather than beginning with ## P(X>x)=e^{-x/\lambda} ##. With the hint of post 2, you can show that ## P(X>x)=e^{-x/\lambda} ##, etc. (Note: ## X ## is the random variable for where the first collision occurs).
 
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We=the Homework Helpers aren't supposed to furnish answers, but we could use some feedback from the OP @P4Penguin here: Were you able to show from post 2 that ## P(X>x)=e^{-x/\lambda} ##?

If you followed the hint, you then needed to use a little mathematics of the exponential function ## e^x=\lim_{N \, \rightarrow \, \infty} (1+\frac{x}{N})^N ##. This problem is a good mathematical exercise, but it might be somewhat advanced for a Biology or Chemistry student.
 
I was able to get the expression of probability P = ##e^{-x/\lambda}##. I followed the approach that the probability of no collision over ##f(x+dx) = f(x)(1-\frac{dx}{\lambda})## then expanded LHS using Taylor series. Then by taking the first two terms and neglecting the higher order terms, I get a differential equation, upon solving which ##e^{-x/\lambda}## is obtained. But I didn't understand this part: "You then take a derivative to get the probability density function f(x)=F′(x), and it is routine from there to calculate the mean free path."
 
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P4Penguin said:
"You then take a derivative to get the probability density function f(x)=F′(x), and it is routine from there to calculate the mean free path."
That is something they teach in a first year class in probability theory: ##F(x)= P(X \leq x)=1-e^{-x/\lambda} ##. Then ## F(x+dx)=P(X \leq x+dx) ##, so that ## P(x<X \leq x+dx)=F(x+dx)-F(x)=F'(x) \, dx =f(x) \, dx ##.
Then the mean free path ## \bar{X}=\int x \, f(x) \, dx ##.
The probability density function ## f(x) ## and the mean free path ## \bar{X} ## are readily computed.

also, from post 2 (the hint), the probability ## P(X>x)=(1-n (\pi \sigma^2) \Delta x)^{x/\Delta x} ##.
Here you could use the mathematics of ## e^x ## from the second paragraph of post 4 to get
## P(X>x)=e^{-x/\lambda } ##, with ## \lambda=\frac{1}{n (\pi \sigma^2)} ##.

Your way of solving it was rather clever, but you might find it good reading to see how the problem is more often approached, as I have done above. They normally don't give you ## P(X>x)=e^{-x/\lambda} ## as the starting point=that is something that we are able to derive.
 
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