Deriving Acceleration Field with Velocity Field Vectors | Step-by-Step Guide

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving an acceleration field from a given velocity field represented by vector components. The original poster is attempting to understand the relationship between the terms in their equations and how they relate to the acceleration field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining the application of the chain rule in deriving acceleration from the velocity field. Questions arise regarding the interpretation of terms involving the nabla operator and its interaction with vector fields. There is confusion about the notation and the implications of the dot product between vectors and operators.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications regarding the notation and the properties of the nabla operator. There is an ongoing exploration of the differences between various operations involving the velocity field and the nabla operator, with no explicit consensus reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the notation used in their texts and the implications of the mathematical operations involved. The discussion reflects a mix of understanding and confusion regarding the derivation process and the properties of vector calculus.

Saladsamurai
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I am working on deriving an acceleration field. We have the velocity field

[tex]\mathbf{V}(\mathbf{r},t) = \mathbf{i}u(x,y,z,t) + \mathbf{j}v(x,y,z,t) + \mathbf{k}w(x,y,z,t)\,\,\,\,\,\,\,(1)[/tex]

where u,v, and w are the scalar components Vx, Vy, and Vz, respectively.
[tex]\therefore\,\,\,\,\,\,\,\,\,\mathbf{a}=\frac{d\,\mathbf{V}}{d\,t} = \mathbf{i}\frac{d\,u}{d\,t} + \mathbf{j}\frac{d\,v}{d\,t} + \mathbf{i}\frac{d\,w}{d\,t} \,\,\,\,\,\,\,(2)[/tex]

Looking at just the first term, we have by the chain rule:

[tex] \frac{d\,u(x,y,z,t)}{d\,t} =<br /> \frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{t}} + <br /> \frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}\frac{d\,x}{d\,t} +<br /> \frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{y}}\frac{d\,y}{d\,t} +<br /> \frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{z}}\frac{d\,z}{d\,t}<br /> \,\,\,\,\,\,\,(3)[/tex]

But since dx/dt = u, dy/dt = v and dz/dt = w, we can write:

[tex] \frac{d\,u(x,y,z,t)}{d\,t} =<br /> \frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{t}} + <br /> u\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}} +<br /> v\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{y}} +<br /> w\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{z}}<br /> \,\,\,\,\,\,\,\,(4)[/tex]

Here is where I get major confused. My text denotes this as:

[tex]\mathbf{a} = \frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{t}} + (\mathbf{V}\cdot\nabla)u\,\,\,\,\,\,\,\,(5)[/tex]

I get that

[tex] (\mathbf{V}\cdot\nabla) = <br /> \partial{\mathbf{V_x}/\partial{x} + <br /> \partial{\mathbf{V_y}}/\partial{y} +\partial{\mathbf{V_z}}/\partial{z} = \partial{\mathbf{u}/\partial{x} + <br /> \partial{\mathbf{v}}/\partial{y} +\partial{\mathbf{w}}/\partial{z}<br /> \,\,\,\,\,\,\,\,(6)[/tex]

I don't understand how multiplying EQ (6) by 'u' gets you the last 3 terms in EQ (4) ?

What about 'v' and 'w' ?

Where am I getting confused?

Is my EQ (6) right?
 
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You have the expression ut +uux + vuy + wuz which is ut + [itex]<u, v, w> \cdot <u_x,u_y,u_z>[/itex], which is just [itex]u_t + V \cdot \nabla u[/itex].

And [itex]V \cdot \nabla u[/itex] is exactly what [itex](V \cdot \nabla)u[/itex] means. The [itex]\nabla[/itex] operator only affects terms to its right.
 
LCKurtz said:
You have the expression ut +uux + vuy + wuz which is ut + [itex]<u, v, w> \cdot <u_x,u_y,u_z>[/itex], which is just [itex]u_t + V \cdot \nabla u[/itex].

And [itex]V \cdot \nabla u[/itex] is exactly what [itex](V \cdot \nabla)u[/itex] means. The [itex]\nabla[/itex] operator only affects terms to its right.

Okay. So you are saying that it is not actually being 'multiplied by u' ? Instead, 'u' is being operated on by nabla ?

Also, does this mean that [itex]\mathbf{V}\cdot\nabla\ne\nabla\cdot\mathbf{V}[/itex]?
 
Saladsamurai said:
Okay. So you are saying that it is not actually being 'multiplied by u' ? Instead, 'u' is being operated on by nabla ?

Also, does this mean that [itex]\mathbf{V}\cdot\nabla\ne\nabla\cdot\mathbf{V}[/itex]?

Yes. That is exactly right.
 
Oh wow. I was thinking that [itex]\mathbf{V}\cdot\nabla=\nabla\cdot\mathbf{V}[/itex] and was taking the divergence of V-->[itex]\nabla\cdot\mathbf{V}[/itex] I am still a little confused.

But I think I can possibly work through it now. Why do they notate it [itex](V \cdot \nabla)u[/itex] ?? Shouldn't it be [itex]\mathbf{V} \cdot (\mathbf{\nabla u})[/itex]?

The former doesn't even make any sense :confused: How can you 'dot' a Vector with an operator?

And moreover, if you are going to 'dot' something that doesn't make any sense then it should have to be commutative by definition of dot product.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I could use some clarity here.
 
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The nabla operator is sometimes written an an operator form like this:

[tex]\nabla = i\frac{\partial}{\partial x} + j\frac{\partial}{\partial y}+ k\frac{\partial}{\partial z}[/tex]

or in other notation:

[tex]\langle\frac{\partial}{\partial x},\frac{\partial}{\partial y},\frac{\partial}{\partial z}\rangle[/tex]

It operates on vectors with the usual dot and cross properties much like the D differentiation operator:

(D2 + 2D + 1)y = y'' + 2y' + 1

If [itex]V = \langle a,b,c \rangle[/itex] then

[tex]V \cdot \nabla = a\frac{\partial}{\partial x} + b\frac{\partial}{\partial y}+ c\frac{\partial}{\partial z}[/tex]

and it is ready to "multiply", that is operate, on a scalar on its right. Does that help? And, yes, you lose the commutative property of dot product with nabla.
 
LCKurtz said:
The nabla operator is sometimes written an an operator form like this:

[tex]\nabla = i\frac{\partial}{\partial x} + j\frac{\partial}{\partial y}+ k\frac{\partial}{\partial z}[/tex]

or in other notation:

[tex]\langle\frac{\partial}{\partial x},\frac{\partial}{\partial y},\frac{\partial}{\partial z}\rangle[/tex]

It operates on vectors with the usual dot and cross properties much like the D differentiation operator:

(D2 + 2D + 1)y = y'' + 2y' + 1

If [itex]V = \langle a,b,c \rangle[/itex] then

[tex]V \cdot \nabla = a\frac{\partial}{\partial x} + b\frac{\partial}{\partial y}+ c\frac{\partial}{\partial z}[/tex]

and it is ready to "multiply", that is operate, on a scalar on its right. Does that help? And, yes, you lose the commutative property of dot product with nabla.

Yes! That does help A LOT! Thanks for explaining :smile: It was indeed the 'loss of commutativity' that was driving me batty!

Thanks LCKurtz :smile:

Now if only someone would have a look at my https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=348424" thread :wink:
 
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