Description of a nuclear EMP event

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the physical accuracy of a fictional description of a nuclear EMP event, exploring its implications on technology, infrastructure, and society. Participants analyze various aspects of the scenario, including the effects on electronic devices, military technology, and the aftermath of such an event.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a catastrophic scenario where nuclear detonations in the ionosphere lead to widespread electronic failures and societal collapse.
  • Another participant questions the accuracy of the description, suggesting that many military devices might be resistant to EMP effects and that consumer devices could also be protected if photonic computing is used.
  • Concerns are raised about the effectiveness of large metallic bodies in protecting tractor electronics from EMP, with the possibility that GPS antennas could still be damaged.
  • A historical reference is made to a superstorm in 1989 that caused transformer failures, supporting the idea that transformers could indeed smoke under certain conditions.
  • Participants discuss the role of hospitals during such an event, noting that they typically have backup generators that might mitigate some of the impacts.
  • There is skepticism about the existence of space-to-surface missiles in the current context, with a suggestion that such technology would violate existing treaties.
  • A participant emphasizes that the visual representation of a nuclear explosion in the ionosphere would be more dramatic than described, suggesting it would appear as giant flashbulbs visible across continents.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the physical accuracy of the scenario, particularly regarding the resilience of technology to EMP effects and the implications for infrastructure and society. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note various assumptions regarding the technology of the future, the reliability of GPS systems, and the operational status of hospitals during an EMP event. There is also uncertainty about the current status of international treaties related to military technology.

GTOM
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I wonder whether the following description is physically accurate:

White balls like the Moon appeared on the night sky, when the nukes detonated in the ionosphere. Computers and cellphones ceased to function, transformators were overloaded and smoked. As if ancient, cruel gods punished humanity for their sins, fire rained down to Earth: space to surface missiles turned power plants and protected server rooms to craters. Many have died due to the bombing, or power shortage in hospitals. But the aftermath were even worse. The civilisation collapsed. Many robotic tractors survived the EMP, since their large, metallic bodies protected the electronics like Faraday cages, and most bombs went off above the cities. But eventually, they became inoperative due to lack of fuel and maintenance. Famine ravaged.
 
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GTOM said:
I wonder whether the following description is physically accurate:
Any part specifically, @GTOM?

Depending on when your story is set, many military devices would likely be resistant to EMP, and if we're using photonic computing, consumer devices may be as well. I'm not sure that a "large, metallic body" would protect the innards of a tractor, but even if they did, most such devices would presumably be using GPS for navigation, and the antenna would probably conduct sufficient energy into the electronics to burn them out. The GPS satellites should be okay, they orbit around 20kms up, but ones in lower orbits would be impacted and there might be sufficient atmospheric interference that the tractors would not have consistent signals to navigate by, irrespective of fuel (which would run out well before maintenance was needed, unless they are solar powered with self-return to PV-charged batteries at end of shift. Assuming the solar panels survive the EMP, which is unlikely.

In terms of transformers, there was a superstorm in 1989 and geomagnetic-induced currents melted windings of a large transformer at the Salem Nuclear plant, and that would cause smoke, no doubt, so that's realistic.

The population of hospitals would be trivial compared to the rest of a city, so I'm not sure why you've called that out, but hospitals typically have local generators, so if they did not burn out - and they might not if they were in a basement - ironically a hospital might fare better than the rest of the city.

Where did the space to surface missiles come from? This must be set in the future, as we don't have them currently, they violate numerous global treaties. Irrespective, any large scale bombing in a city would wreak havoc.

But there is a good description of the US nuclear bomb that was detonated in the ionosphere, the explosions are not going to be "white balls like the Moon", they are going to be giant flashbulbs going off, visible across continents! Which is much more dramatic and would be fun to write.

https://space4peace.org/why-the-u-s-once-set-off-a-nuclear-bomb-in-space/
 
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Melbourne Guy said:
Any part specifically, @GTOM?

Depending on when your story is set, many military devices would likely be resistant to EMP, and if we're using photonic computing, consumer devices may be as well. I'm not sure that a "large, metallic body" would protect the innards of a tractor, but even if they did, most such devices would presumably be using GPS for navigation, and the antenna would probably conduct sufficient energy into the electronics to burn them out. The GPS satellites should be okay, they orbit around 20kms up, but ones in lower orbits would be impacted and there might be sufficient atmospheric interference that the tractors would not have consistent signals to navigate by, irrespective of fuel (which would run out well before maintenance was needed, unless they are solar powered with self-return to PV-charged batteries at end of shift. Assuming the solar panels survive the EMP, which is unlikely.

In terms of transformers, there was a superstorm in 1989 and geomagnetic-induced currents melted windings of a large transformer at the Salem Nuclear plant, and that would cause smoke, no doubt, so that's realistic.

The population of hospitals would be trivial compared to the rest of a city, so I'm not sure why you've called that out, but hospitals typically have local generators, so if they did not burn out - and they might not if they were in a basement - ironically a hospital might fare better than the rest of the city.

Where did the space to surface missiles come from? This must be set in the future, as we don't have them currently, they violate numerous global treaties. Irrespective, any large scale bombing in a city would wreak havoc.

But there is a good description of the US nuclear bomb that was detonated in the ionosphere, the explosions are not going to be "white balls like the Moon", they are going to be giant flashbulbs going off, visible across continents! Which is much more dramatic and would be fun to write.

https://space4peace.org/why-the-u-s-once-set-off-a-nuclear-bomb-in-space/
Ok, thanks for the info. I didnt know tractors rely so much on GPS. Hospitals, if all electronic device stop working on intensive care, it is still nasty, isn't it?
Those treaties were no longer since the leaders of the world could escape to Moon.
 
GTOM said:
I didnt know tractors rely so much on GPS
Oops, my bad. I'd assumed they are autonomous - though even large ones now use GPS for fine control of their line across large fields. But yeah, manual ones generally won't 👍
 
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