Determinats,dependence, span, basis.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationships between determinants, linear dependence, span, and basis in the context of a 3x3 matrix within the R3 vector space. Participants explore whether certain statements regarding these concepts are accurate and seek clarification on their interconnections.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that if the determinant of a 3x3 matrix is 0, the matrix is linearly dependent, does not span R3, and is not a basis for R3. Conversely, if the determinant is non-zero, the matrix is linearly independent, spans R3, and serves as a basis for R3.
  • Another participant challenges the initial claim, stating that it is not meaningful to attribute linear independence, span, or basis to a determinant itself, but rather to the set of column vectors of the matrix associated with the determinant.
  • This participant provides a list of four equivalent statements regarding a square matrix, emphasizing that the determinant being non-zero implies the column vectors are linearly independent, span Rn, and form a basis for Rn.
  • A third participant suggests that the original poster is conflating concepts, clarifying that a determinant is merely a numerical value assigned to a matrix and does not directly relate to linear dependence or basis without considering the vectors involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between determinants and concepts of linear dependence, span, and basis. There is no consensus reached on the accuracy of the initial claim regarding these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between the properties of determinants and the properties of the sets of vectors associated with matrices. There is an indication of potential confusion regarding the definitions and implications of these concepts.

am_knightmare
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Im having trouble under stand the relationships between determinats, span, basis.
Given a 3x3 matrix on R3 vector space.
* If determinat is 0, it is linearly dependent, will NOT span R3, is NOT a basis of R3.
, If determinant is non-zero, its linearly independent, will span R3, is a basis of R3

I was not able to confirm this statement one of my friends said, and i checked wiki as well, but didn't find a answer. Question is, is this right? can anyone confirm this? Thanks in advance.
 
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It is not meaningful to say that a determinant is linealy independent, spans Rn, or is a basis for Rn. Only sets of sets of vectors can do these things. And the set of vectors of interest here is the set of column vectors of the determinant (more precicely, of the underlying matrix).

For a (quadratic) nxn-matrix A, the following four statements are equivalent, either all four of them are true or all four are false:

1. The determinant of A is nonzero.
2. The column vectors of A is a linearly independent set.
4. The column vectors of A span Rn.
5. The column vectors of A is a basis for Rn.

The corresponding is true for the row vectors.
 
I think this link might be useful to you, here I answer some of your questions...

"www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=590440"

For now I will say you're mixing up concepts. A determinant itself has nothing to do with linear dependence or with basis... a determinant is simply a number which is assigned to every quadratic matrix. If you understand what a determinant is, then you will be able to understand what the "rank of a matrix" is, which is a number assigned to every matrix (quadratic or not).

I hope I don't get banned or anything for helping you, by the way...
 
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Thanks for the replies, just what I needed Erland.
 

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