Deterministic Universe (3 propositions)

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In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of determinism in relation to quantum systems and the Universe. The first viewpoint argues that the wave function is used to determine all possible states of a quantum system and that the system influences and is influenced by the Universe in a deterministic manner. The second viewpoint suggests that quantum systems in superposition may not have any influence on the physical Universe. Lastly, the third viewpoint considers the influence of unique point particles on the physical Universe. All of these viewpoints support a deterministic model of the Universe, but the role of true randomness and the uncertainty principle are still uncertain. The conversation concludes by seeking a physicist's perspective on the matter.
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Descartz2000
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1 - Can we argue that the wave function is used to determine all possible temporary states of a quantum system, and that via Schrodinger’s equation evolving deterministically the quantum system influences and is influenced by the Universe in a deterministic way? If the Universe has its own wave function, then too can we say it unfolds in a deterministic manner if it can not be broken down into subsystems?

2 - Or, can we argue that if a quantum system is in a superposition of states, and it is only a mathematical description, then it may not be influenced or have any influence over the physical Universe when the quantum particle is in its quantum state? With decoherence at work, it becomes a part of the determined in principle macro scale. This would mean prior to the interaction with the environment, the Universe would default to influencing and being influenced by existing properties and variables that are real in the physical Universe.

3 - Or, can we say that unique point particles of micro events (hidden variables) do influence and are influenced by the physical Universe, simply because this would equate to realism within the particle.

It seems these three options argue for a deterministic Universe. What other options are available? Either quantum systems influence and are influenced by the natural physical world deterministically via Schrodinger’s wave, or they are in a superposition of states with no influences as they do not technically exist and the way the Universe develops is due to only existing variables, or they exist as actual point particles. All of these propositions argue for a deterministic model of what influences and is influenced by the Universe. I am not sure where true randomness inserts itself. If we say randomness is evident, then it must do so in the collapse/decoherence part of the process.

Am I reaching here, what do you think?
 
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I think that you are correct. Everything seems to evolve deterministically except for the collapse/decohering of a wavefunction. Although, given the latter point, we can't conclude one way or another, I don't think. Also, what of the uncertainty principle. When the unobserved variable becomes uncertain (e.g. momentum when position is observed), do we state that momentum ceases to evolve deterministically? I'd really like a physicists perspcetive though.


See the related thread in the QM section:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=387951
 
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What is the deterministic universe hypothesis?

The deterministic universe hypothesis states that every event in the universe is caused by previous events in a predictable manner, meaning that there is no randomness or free will in the universe.

What are the 3 propositions of a deterministic universe?

The 3 propositions of a deterministic universe are:
1. Every event has a cause that can be traced back to previous events.
2. The same causes will always produce the same effects.
3. There is no room for randomness or free will in the universe.

What evidence supports the deterministic universe hypothesis?

There is no conclusive evidence that supports the deterministic universe hypothesis. However, many scientists and philosophers argue that the laws of physics, such as the laws of motion and conservation of energy, suggest a deterministic nature of the universe.

How does the deterministic universe hypothesis relate to quantum mechanics?

Quantum mechanics, which describes the behavior of particles at the subatomic level, challenges the deterministic universe hypothesis. According to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, it is impossible to predict the exact position and momentum of a particle at the same time, suggesting that there is inherent randomness in the universe.

What are the implications of a deterministic universe?

If the deterministic universe hypothesis is true, it means that everything in the universe is predetermined and there is no room for free will or making choices. This raises questions about the concept of morality, responsibility, and the meaning of life.

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