Did Matter Exist Before Space-Time Began?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between matter and space-time, particularly in the context of the Big Bang. Participants explore whether matter existed before space-time began and how the properties of matter influence the curvature of space-time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the conventional view that space and time began to expand at the moment of the Big Bang, suggesting that if matter curves space-time, it implies that matter must have come after space-time.
  • Another participant states that matter and energy are equivalent in the context of gravity, implying a relationship between the two that may affect their discussion.
  • A participant introduces the concept of fermions and bosons, explaining that while they are typically associated with matter and energy respectively, they can be interchanged, suggesting a deeper connection between matter and energy.
  • One participant uses a trampoline analogy to illustrate their question, proposing that if matter causes curvature in space-time, then space-time must have been flat before matter was introduced, raising questions about the simultaneous creation of both.
  • A later reply reiterates the trampoline analogy and challenges the assumption that there was nothing before the Big Bang, suggesting that all matter and energy were concentrated in a single point, which complicates the understanding of their relationship to space-time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether matter existed before space-time and how they interact. There is no consensus on the nature of their relationship or the implications of the Big Bang theory.

Contextual Notes

Participants' arguments depend on various interpretations of the Big Bang theory and the nature of matter and energy, which remain unresolved. The trampoline analogy introduces assumptions about the state of space-time prior to the Big Bang that are not universally accepted.

binbots
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Just curious. How come we say that at the moment of the bb space and time started to expand, and within this BB contained all the matter of the universe. But we see matter as creating curves in space time creating gravity. Wouldnt this imply that matter came after space time as it is changing it? I am having a hard time explaining it but you are smart people and can figure it out.lol
 
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Matter and energy are equivalent where gravity is concerned.
 
There are two basic types of particles. Fermions and bosons. Fermions are the particles that people normally think of when you talk about "matter" and bosons are the particles that people normally think of when you talk about "energy."

However, it's possible to change particles from fermions to bosons and bosons to fermions, and from the point of view of a physicist, they really are the same thing.
 
Let me trty and explain my question using the trampoline idea. The trampoline is space time and all matter causes curves on the trampoline. Would this not imly that trampoline was once flat and matter was introduced later. If the trampoline and matter were created at the same time wouldn't they be woven together, and not change the curvature of the trampoline?
 
binbots said:
Let me trty and explain my question using the trampoline idea. The trampoline is space time and all matter causes curves on the trampoline. Would this not imly that trampoline was once flat and matter was introduced later. If the trampoline and matter were created at the same time wouldn't they be woven together, and not change the curvature of the trampoline?

The problem is that your assuming that there was NOTHING there before the big bang. In my understanding of the big bang, all the matter and energy of the universe was already concentrated in a single point, and possible space itself too. Take your trampoline and unhook all the springs. Then bring the outer edges all together to make something akin to a big bag. Thats kinda what it was like. One big curve.
 

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