Did the Soldier's Response to Rock-Throwing Kids Go Too Far?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the justification of soldiers' responses to being attacked by a group of approximately 25 children and teenagers throwing rocks. The soldiers initially used a 40mm riot grenade, resulting in injury to one of the attackers, followed by the deployment of a flashbang grenade to disperse the crowd. Participants express polarized views, with some arguing for restraint while others support the soldiers' actions as necessary self-defense in a potentially hostile environment. The conversation highlights the complexities of military engagement with civilians, particularly in conflict zones.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of military engagement rules in conflict zones
  • Knowledge of non-lethal crowd control methods, such as riot grenades and flashbangs
  • Familiarity with the psychological impact of mob behavior on military personnel
  • Awareness of historical contexts regarding youth involvement in conflicts
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the effectiveness and ethical implications of non-lethal weapons in crowd control
  • Study the psychological effects of mob dynamics on both civilians and military personnel
  • Examine case studies of military engagements with civilian populations in conflict zones
  • Explore historical instances of youth involvement in armed conflicts and their motivations
USEFUL FOR

Military personnel, conflict resolution specialists, sociologists studying youth behavior in conflict, and policymakers involved in military engagement strategies.

  • #31
Whats a circle jerk lol. I thought ajerk was a guy who gave out soda... calling him fat? is that a remark towards fat people?? *calls the fatass civil liberties union and pizza hit*
 
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  • #32
1 said:
Kinda like picking a fight with the worlds superpower and whining when they fight back.

Haha yup. Kinda like when people say it was wrong for the US to attack Japan... (not that the US was a superpower at that point)... but i mean what the hell.. were we suppose to go "whoops, guess we shouldn't let our guard down like that... guess we deserved that... oh well, whos up for some tea".

You guys hsould go talk to the people on my board. It seems as if the Jews in Israel right now are actually arab descendants, the Palestinians have foreever owned the land there through all of history... Jews shouldn't have been relocated and instead, stayed in Germany in 1946... and that the Jews going into what is now Israel is 'like you going up to someones house for no reason other then your own selfish ways and telling them to leave'.
 
  • #33
Who's up for some anarchy? :biggrin:
 
  • #35
1 said:
I would have killed them all, it would rid the genepool of idiot scum. Also, if i was the PM of israel, i would occupy those arab countries and take their land, not give it back. I think that arabia went downhill after people tookover islam and made it a religion of hate and death, so it should be rid of scumbags who think 'allah' will give them sluts in paradice to screw. It would help a lot. I think there is a lot of people out there who really need to die, and people who are dump enough to pick a fight with soldiers who can kick their asses in a couple of seconds are included. Kinda like picking a fight with the worlds superpower and whining when they fight back. If you trace it back, they started it, not us.

My views on life and war are not appreciated here, but i don't care, better than being a big whimp and letting people kick your ass.

Fibo
I can see already that you're heading for a stellar career in the Diplomatic Corps. :rolleyes:
 
  • #36
Danger said:
I can see already that you're heading for a stellar career in the Diplomatic Corps. :rolleyes:
Who, me? nah, just delta force (if you don't know what that is, its the only people who are granted immunity from the law by the President himself to assinate people. Fifth freedom, yo!) :-p Aren't i a caring, kind person?

Fibonacci
 
  • #37
1 said:
Who, me? nah, just delta force (if you don't know what that is, its the only people who are granted immunity from the law by the President himself to assinate people. Fifth freedom, yo!) :-p Aren't i a caring, kind person?

Fibonacci
You seem to be overlooking 'Blue Light'.
 
  • #38
Those soldiers handled it fine but imo could have opened fire on them. They were greatly outnumbered and the situation could have escalated. Good thing they had the bean bags and flash, otherwise it would have been 25 dead kids.

Hey, don't bring a rock to a gun fight. eerrr...yeah.. something like that.
 
  • #39
You guys hsould go talk to the people on my board. It seems as if the Jews in Israel right now are actually arab descendants, the Palestinians have foreever owned the land there through all of history... Jews shouldn't have been relocated and instead, stayed in Germany in 1946... and that the Jews going into what is now Israel is 'like you going up to someones house for no reason other then your own selfish ways and telling them to leave'.

The only reason the Jews have Isael is because if the President doesn't support it then they lose the Jewish vote, and Jews vote in numbers and most live in NY and FL, two states with a lot of electorial votes. Makes you wonder how America found it so imporant to give Jews their "rightful land" while completely ignoring Native Americans. :wink:

(I'm not racists, infact my History teacher, whos Jewish, explained this to our whole class)

As for the children. They got off easy. If you're stupid enough to throw rocks at armed soldiers then, really, do you deserve to live? Think about it. How long could someone that inheirently stupid survive without doing something idiotic like falling off a cliff. I bet the "smart" kids were sitting out of view watching them and laughing.

It reminds me of some kid that was poking an alligator with a stick and then got ripped to pieces (what a surprise). Then the pissed off parents convinced the town to kill all the gators they could find.
 
  • #40
Entropy said:
The only reason the Jews have Isael is because if the President doesn't support it then they lose the Jewish vote, and Jews vote in numbers and most live in NY and FL, two states with a lot of electorial votes. Makes you wonder how America found it so imporant to give Jews their "rightful land" while completely ignoring Native Americans. :wink:
Funny part is that it's always non-voting idiots who say things like "omg jews control washington". No; voters control washington. That includes all races, religions, genders, etc. Jews vote, so you need to remember them. Old people take buses just to vote, so you definitely need to include them. If hillbillies only vote at a 5% rate, there's no real point in helping them. Jesse Jackson tried to get the black vote. California governors always go for the hispanic vote. Pick the groups you want to vote for you, and pick the ones that vote in larger numbers.

You guys hsould go talk to the people on my board. It seems as if the Jews in Israel right now are actually arab descendants, the Palestinians have foreever owned the land there through all of history... Jews shouldn't have been relocated and instead, stayed in Germany in 1946... and that the Jews going into what is now Israel is 'like you going up to someones house for no reason other then your own selfish ways and telling them to leave'.
Palestine was actually a British colony, just like the US was. When it was given away as Israel, Britain had full right to do so. Palestine fights for independence the way the US did, but they're continually losing the battle.
I would tend to think Americans would side with Palestine since they're fighting a battle that's all too familiar.
 
  • #41
mapper said:
Those soldiers handled it fine but imo could have opened fire on them. They were greatly outnumbered and the situation could have escalated. Good thing they had the bean bags and flash, otherwise it would have been 25 dead kids.

Hey, don't bring a rock to a gun fight. eerrr...yeah.. something like that.
Think about that. Is it all right to kill someone because they throw a rock at you?

If the soldiers did not have the grenades or other forms of crowd control, and were armed with only guns, they should have run away.
 
  • #42
1 said:
Who's up for some anarchy? :biggrin:
"The funny thing about anarchists is how quickly they lose their enthusiasm for lawlessness after a completely unprovoked punch in the nose." - DC2005

.
 
  • #43
BicycleTree said:
Think about that. Is it all right to kill someone because they throw a rock at you?

If the soldiers did not have the grenades or other forms of crowd control, and were armed with only guns, they should have run away.

What would that have teached them if the soldiers did run away? Hey let's drive out all the peace keepers in our country by throwing rocks at them? um. kay.
 
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  • #44
hahah wow I've never seen this before :)
You all have a normal non-hippie reaction to this.
Usually I get blasted by some of the people I hang around 'cause they think that everything can be solved by flower power.
I think those soldiers are 100% justified in what they did.
If someone is trying to harm you then you retaliate.
It's human nature to fight back when you're threatened.
 
  • #45
Mapper, the lesson to be learned is that it's often good for soldiers to carry riot gear. What if the crowd wasn't throwing rocks but was advancing at the soldiers and insulting them, unarmed, and the soldiers had only guns? Should the soldiers kill the crowd then? Sometimes "teaching a lesson" is less important than saving 25 lives.
 
  • #46
Pengwuino said:
And what kind of person would actually put himself up to strapping a bomb ona lil kid?
This kind of thing where kids are involved is common precisely because it makes a response more difficult. I'll bet the older guys in the group got the younger kids to participate (I couldn't get the link to open to anything). I'd say the soldiers did the right thing.

I was watching a news program some time ago, and what these soldiers do so they and other soldiers can come back home alive/in one piece is amazing to me.
 
  • #47
Think about that. Is it all right to kill someone because they throw a rock at you?

That's like criticising someone for trying to defend against being stabbed by asking if it's right to incapacitate someone because they flexed their triceps.
 
  • #48
Hurkyl said:
That's like criticising someone for trying to defend against being stabbed by asking if it's right to incapacitate someone because they flexed their triceps.

huh? lol, I am lost. whos flexing the tricepts?
 
  • #49
You know, the stabbing motion? At least when I tried to simualte a stabbing motion, that's where the force came from. *shrug* Oh well, you took all of the wind out of my analogy's sails. :frown:
 
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  • #50
BicycleTree said:
Think about that. Is it all right to kill someone because they throw a rock at you?

If the soldiers did not have the grenades or other forms of crowd control, and were armed with only guns, they should have run away.
Think about what that would teach them.
throw rocks --> soldiers go away
Then you would have massive crowds throwing rocks at soldiers. One soldier fires, then every soldier fires, and you're left with a massacre.
It's better to kill ~20 stupid children than to massacre ~2000 people doing something that's quite logical.


BicycleTree said:
Mapper, the lesson to be learned is that it's often good for soldiers to carry riot gear. What if the crowd wasn't throwing rocks but was advancing at the soldiers and insulting them, unarmed, and the soldiers had only guns? Should the soldiers kill the crowd then?
It may sounds brutally harsh (because it is), but sometimes mowing down a few people can set a precedent that your army isn't going to tolerate any crap from anyone.
 
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  • #51
If someone is attacking you and they _cannot kill you_ or even hurt you seriously, responding with lethal force would be very immoral. The soldiers acted appropriately with the riot grenades, but if they did not have the grenades and only had guns, then the only moral response would be to run. The question you have to ask yourself is, "is avoiding having to run away worth the lives of 25 people?"

If someone is in the process of stabbing you then he CAN kill you or hurt you seriously; in that situation you should do whatever you can. Therefore, that's a poor analogy.
 
  • #52
If the people mass in large numbers then you _would_ most definitely have riot gear. Riot grenades, rubber bullets, tear gas, maybe even fire hoses. Deliberately using lethal force against 2000 rioters who cannot do any real damage would also be unjustifiable.
 
  • #53
The question here is the same basic question faced by the British in India during passive resistance. Is it moral to kill and maim people solely for the purpose of maintaining control, and not for protecting any tangible thing being attacked? Granted that someone throwing rocks is not a passive resistor, but the motivation for killing him would be the same.
 
  • #54
I have a question. Do you think that group of 25 kids were throwing rocks and the such cause they knew the soldiers had riot gear and that they were in no real mortal danger? What if they knew the soldiers only had live ammo?

Not sure how many of you did this when you were a kid. Sometimes while hanging out with our friends (like when we were 10 yrs old) we would egg on an adult or much older kid just so he may chase us. I definitely wouldn’t have done it if I knew he had a gun and planned on using it.

With an angry mob kids or no, the situation could turn from bad to really fookin bad really quick. On the other hand, if the soldiers would have used deadly force I am sure there would be a lynch mob soon to follow.
 
  • #55
Entropy said:
The only reason the Jews have Isael is because if the President doesn't support it then they lose the Jewish vote, and Jews vote in numbers and most live in NY and FL, two states with a lot of electorial votes. Makes you wonder how America found it so imporant to give Jews their "rightful land" while completely ignoring Native Americans. :wink:

And don't forget about 3 billions $ we give to Israel plus latest in military equipment.
 
  • #56
mapper said:
I have a question. Do you think that group of 25 kids were throwing rocks and the such cause they knew the soldiers had riot gear and that they were in no real mortal danger? What if they knew the soldiers only had live ammo?

Not sure how many of you did this when you were a kid. Sometimes while hanging out with our friends (like when we were 10 yrs old) we would egg on an adult or much older kid just so he may chase us. I definitely wouldn’t have done it if I knew he had a gun and planned on using it.

With an angry mob kids or no, the situation could turn from bad to really fookin bad really quick. On the other hand, if the soldiers would have used deadly force I am sure there would be a lynch mob soon to follow.

Just how bad do you think it would be if the soldiers did use deadly force and left 25 kids dead for no good reason? If the soldiers can get away, they should, and should not massacre people just to appear powerful.

The kids were stupid, that's a given. For that you want to kill them? Hey, let's kill all stupid people, right here in the USA. Anyone with road rage--guillotine for them! Anyone engages in street crime and it's off to the death camps. How dumb must you be to shoplift? Better ready the firing squad.
 
  • #57
If someone is attacking you and they _cannot kill you_ or even hurt you seriously, responding with lethal force would be very immoral.

A mob armed with rocks can kill you, and hurt you seriously. The mob could even have had more effective armaments. But, a mob doesn't even have to be armed to kill someone...

So if this statement is correct, it is still irrelevant.
 
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  • #58
BicycleTree said:
If someone is attacking you and they _cannot kill you_ or even hurt you seriously
If you think people don't get killed by crowds, think again. People are jailed every day for killing somebody with their bare hands, and that's just 1 on 1. When there's a situation of 25 against 1 or 2 soldiers, those soldiers are in very serious and immediate danger, especially when those people are throwing rocks.

If you've ever had rock wars as a kid, you probably know that rocks mess you up pretty bad. I've been cold cocked many times before. The difference between the situation being discussed and rock wars is that when you're knocked down in rock wars, your friends don't rush over to your unconscious body and try to kill you... well at least my friends didn't. I haven't exactly met your friends.

If the people mass in large numbers then you _would_ most definitely have riot gear.
Military are there to take out military targets, that's why it's very unreasonable to assume they would have riot gear.
If a crowd of 2000 people is rushing towards 200 military personel, it's crazy to think 200 people can stop 2000. You either have your men pull out to later occupy the same region, or you stand your ground. How you stand your ground is really up to your commander.
 
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  • #59
Yes, rocks can kill you. So can fists. Here is an interesting thought.

Why did these children/young adults use rocks instead of fists? Somehow they feel safer throwing rocks than punching and kicking soldiers armed with guns. They are not stupid for throwing rocks. They are angry and are testing the boundaries of authority. If they had come close enough to grab these soldiers I can almost assure you that the soldiers would have opened fire on them.

At some point in the film one of the soldiers is on the radio. He is probably reporting the situation and calling for backup. Within minutes of that incident there were probably 50 more soldiers. An overwhelming precense of authority is required to stop an angry population from rioting. This one event had a potential to become something much more serious. These soldiers imo acted very responsibly.
 
  • #60
lol rock wars. As another citizen from Canada i just want to say this isn't a normal pastime we practice. ShawnD must have moved to Alberta from the east cost. :-p

Too bad we didnt have paintball guns when we were kids eh ShawnD. :)
 

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