Difference between QED & QCD Vacuum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences between the QED (Quantum Electrodynamics) vacuum and the QCD (Quantum Chromodynamics) vacuum, exploring their implications and characteristics in quantum field theory. Participants delve into concepts such as vacuum states, virtual particles, vacuum fluctuations, and the nature of particle presence in these vacuums.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the QED vacuum contains no electrons, while the QCD vacuum contains no quarks.
  • One participant notes that in low-energy QCD, there is a phase with broken chiral symmetry indicated by a non-vanishing quark condensate expectation value, whereas in QED, the electron-positron expectation value vanishes.
  • Another participant explains that the vacuum state in quantum field theory is defined as the state with the lowest energy and is considered empty of particles, yet calculations show differing expectations for QED and QCD vacuums.
  • It is mentioned that for QED, the energy expectation value and particle number expectation value are both zero, while for QCD, the energy expectation value is zero, but the particle number expectation value does not vanish.
  • One participant introduces the concept of excitations of the vacuum, noting that in QED, states with arbitrarily small energy can exist, while in QCD, a mass gap prevents such states from being physical without adding significant energy.
  • A later reply discusses the flavor-specific quark condensate and its relation to the pion mass and decay constant, suggesting that values are in the range of 300 MeV³.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints regarding the nature of the QED and QCD vacuums, with some agreeing on certain characteristics while others introduce differing interpretations and complexities. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the implications and definitions of vacuum states.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations in understanding and the complexity of the mathematical framework involved in quantum field theory, particularly regarding the definitions and implications of vacuum states in QED and QCD.

dev70
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Hi pf, i have been wondering what differentiates QED Vacuum from QCD Vacuum? How would u explain its implications? I mean, how can u define pure vacuum in 2 ways?
 
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no reply..what does that imply...:p
 
dev70 said:
Hi pf, i have been wondering what differentiates QED Vacuum from QCD Vacuum?
The difference is, QED vacuum contains no electrons, while QCD vacuum contains no quarks. :smile:
 
There are several differences. The first one is that in low-energy QCD there is a phase with broken chiral symmetry indicated by order parameter (the so-called quark condensate) with non-vanishing expectation value

##\langle \bar{q} q \rangle > 0##

whereas in QED the electron-positron expectation value vanishes

##\langle \bar{\psi} \psi \rangle = 0##
 
ok..fine..then would you please explain the QED vacuum and the creation of virtual particles and more about vacuum fluctuations?
 
What is your background in physics and your knowledge in quantum field theory?
 
well.nothing much..just 12th grade..nd beginner of quantum physics...
 
OK.

In quantum field theory one introduces a so-called vacuum state |vac>. This is not trivial mathematically, but the main idea is that
- the vacuum state is the state with lowest energy
- the vacuum state is empty, so the are no particles present

1) Now one can calculate the energy expectation value (in a finite volume) and one can calculate the expectation value for the particle numbers (particles species s, e.g. electrons and positrons, photons, quarks, gluons). One expectes something like

##\langle H \rangle_\text{vac} = \langle\text{vac} | H | \text{vac}\rangle = 0##
##\langle N_s \rangle_\text{vac} = \langle\text{vac} | N_s | \text{vac}\rangle = 0##

where H and N are so-called operators which define energy and particle number.

If you do that for QED (for s = electrons, positrons and photons) you find zero (as expected).

But for QCD the two definitions do not coincide!

So one has a vacuum state with lowest energy 0, but for which the expectation value of N does not vanish. So the two equations become

##\langle H \rangle_\text{vac} = \langle\text{vac} | H | \text{vac}\rangle = 0##
##\langle N_s \rangle_\text{vac} = \langle\text{vac} | N_s | \text{vac}\rangle \neq 0##

The so-called quark condensate which I introduced in the previous post is something that measure the quark content of the vacuum. So the non-vanishing of this condensate means that the vacuum (defined as the state with lowest energy) is not empty.

2) There is a related phenomenon, namely the excitatons of the vacuum. In quantum field theory these quantized excitatons are interpreted as particles.

In QED one can find states with arbitrary small energy ε>0 (ε can be any positive number). This is rather simple b/c the energy of a photon is just E=hf, so a single photon with small frequency f (long wave length λ) defines such a state

##\langle f| H | f \rangle = hf##

Again in QCD the situation is different. There is no such state with arbitrary small but non-zero energy ε. Adding a single excitatation (a quark, a gluon) results in an unphysical state which is forbidden due to symmetry reasons and due to (infinite) energy. So in QCD there is a mass-gap, which means that one must add a rather large energy (a few hundred MeV) to find the next state above the vacuum state.

3) In order not t confuse you too much I due not (yet) discuss exceptions to 2) which are closely related to 1)
 
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this is awesome..though i won't get all of it now...but still, i will. thanks a lot...its wonderful..
 
  • #10
tom.stoer said:
##\langle N_s \rangle_\text{vac} = \langle\text{vac} | N_s | \text{vac}\rangle \neq 0##
Ok then, if it is not zero, what is its value?
 
  • #11
Bill_K said:
Ok then, if it is not zero, what is its value?
I was cheating a little bit b/c one does not determine <N> but the (flavor-specific) quark condensate; afaik the (ren.-scheme dep.) values are in the range of 300 MeV3; afaik in two-flavor QCD the value can be related to the pion mass and decay constant via the Gell-Mann–Oakes–Renner relation, e.g. in current algebra and chiral perturbation theory; there should be lattice gauge calculations as well.

I have to find some references.
 
Last edited:

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