Different time coordinates due to different velocities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of special relativity on time coordinates for two objects moving at different velocities in a 2+1 spacetime framework. Participants explore the nature of time dilation, the representation of objects in spacetime diagrams, and the concept of relative velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims that according to special relativity, time passes slower for an object moving faster (object a) compared to a slower object (object b), questioning the correctness of a proposed spacetime diagram.
  • Another participant disagrees with the initial claim, asserting that objects do not simply appear or disappear in spacetime and that both objects exist continuously across all time coordinates.
  • A different participant emphasizes the need for a proper reference frame to analyze the situation correctly, suggesting that the original description lacks necessary structure.
  • One participant critiques the spacetime diagram provided, stating it does not accurately represent moving objects and recommends simpler diagrams to clarify the concepts.
  • Another participant discusses the nature of velocity, arguing that it is relative and cannot be considered an intrinsic property of an object without comparison to another object, highlighting the symmetrical nature of time dilation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the interpretation of time dilation and the representation of objects in spacetime. There is no consensus on the correctness of the initial claims or the proposed diagrams.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the initial description, including the need for a proper reference frame and the potential misrepresentation of moving objects in spacetime diagrams. The discussion highlights the complexity of understanding relative motion and time in the context of special relativity.

Timothy S.
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We have 2+1 spacetime (x,y,t) and objects a) and b). The velocity of the object a) is greater than the velocity of the object b), so, according to special theory of relativity the time passes for the object a) slower than for object b) (t_2 is greater than t_1). So is the pinned picture correct: on the plain t_1 there is only obj. b) and only obj. b) on the t_2 plain?

And if the answer was yes, than in our reality all of the objects with non-zero relative velocities would have different time coordinates but still be able to interact. What does theory of relativity says about that?

Thanks
 
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No, nothing of this is correct.
 
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EbalOsla said:
We have 2+1 spacetime (x,y,t) and objects a) and b). The velocity of the object a) is greater than the velocity of the object b)
You actually need more structure than you have given in order to state that. In addition to the spacetime, you need a coordinate chart or a tetrad, often called a reference frame. I assume you want to use the frame where b) is at rest.


EbalOsla said:
So is the pinned picture correct: on the plain t_1 there is only obj. b) and only obj. b) on the t_2 plain?
No. Objects do not pop in and out of existence. They have continuous worldlines.

Assuming they are neither being destroyed nor created during this scenario then both objects will exist on all “plains”.

The only thing is that a)’s clock will read a different number than the coordinate time.

When you reset your watch, do you suddenly find that you stopped existing during the missing time?
 
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I only see one object on your space-time diagram, that is a sideways (time going left-right) space-time diagram of a light clock with three cycles. (Usually space-time diagrams are drawn with the time axis vertical, not horizontal, but I can adapt to that. It's hard to tell from your 2d rendering of a 3d diagram, but it appears that x and y are constant at the center of the clock, while t progresses which is why I say it is a diagram of a stationary light clock, because x=y=constant is a stationary object).

I don't see any moving objects on your diagram at all. If you intended to make a space-time diagram with a moving object, you didn't do it correctly.

I would suggest doing a simpler task first. Draw a space-time diagram with only t and x, and draw the space-time diagram of a stationary object (x = constant), and a moving object (x = vt).

Next up, draw a space-time diagram of a stationary light clock, which should be similar to what you've drawn. It will be easiest if you make the diagram 2d - after you've got a correct 2d diagram (with x and t), you can add y to the picture, but it won't make any material difference.

The last step is to draw the space-time diagram of a moving light clock. I'm guessing that may have been your intention, but all I see is a space-time diagram of a stationary light clock and no hint of any moving objects at all.

[add] I'd also recommend drawing your diagrams at a scale where light always moves at a 45 degree angle from the x and t axis on the diagram.
 
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Timothy S. said:
The velocity of the object a) is greater than the velocity of the object b), so, according to special theory of relativity the time passes for the object a) slower than for object b) (t_2 is greater than t_1).
This sounds like you are thinking of the velocity of an object as a property of that object. It is not. The concept makes sense only when you compare the velocity of an object to something else. In this case a) is faster than b), but that makes sense only if you compare their velocity to a third object.

You can say that a) and b) are in motion relative to each other, but the speed of a) relative to b) equals the speed of b) relative to a).

Moreover, time dilation is symmetrical. You can describe it by saying a) will observe b)'s clocks to be running slow, but b) will observe a)'s clocks to be running slow. An apparent contradiction until you understand how the consideration of relativity of simultaneity makes it possible.
 
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