Difficulty in understanding contracted Bianchi identities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the understanding of the contracted Bianchi identities, particularly focusing on the contraction process in the proof as presented in a Wikipedia article. Participants are exploring the implications of index manipulation and the properties of the Ricci tensor and Riemann tensor.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the equality of certain terms in the proof of the contracted Bianchi identities, specifically questioning the manipulation of indices.
  • Another participant asserts that the only difference between the terms is the naming of the summation index, emphasizing that sums are independent of index names.
  • A later reply challenges the notion of index cancellation, suggesting that it is a matter of definitions and symmetries related to the Ricci tensor and Riemann tensor.
  • Further clarification is requested regarding the relationships between the terms, indicating a struggle to grasp the implications of the index manipulations.
  • Another participant recommends utilizing the symmetries and antisymmetries of the Riemann tensor to aid in understanding the relationships involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are competing views regarding the interpretation of index manipulation and the implications of the definitions involved in the proof.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in understanding due to the complexity of index notation and the properties of the tensors involved, but do not resolve these issues.

lichen1983312
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I am confused about the contraction in the proof of the contracted Bianchi identities in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proofs_involving_covariant_derivatives

from the step
{g^{bn}}(R_{bmn;l}^m - R_{bml;n}^m + R_{bnl;m}^m) = 0
it seems that the following two quantities are equal
{g^{bn}}R_{bml;n}^m = R_{l;n}^n
- {g^{bn}}R_{bnl;m}^m = R_{l;m}^m
but I don't understand how is this done if I write them explicitly
{g^{bn}}({\nabla _n}R)_{bml}^m
- {g^{bn}}({\nabla _m}R)_{bnl}^m
Can anybody help me? I am new to this field and I feel there is something missing. Please help to point out.
 
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The only difference between the terms is the name of the summation index. Sums do not depend on what you call the summation indices.
 
Orodruin said:
The only difference between the terms is the name of the summation index. Sums do not depend on what you call the summation indices.
Thanks for replying. you are right it doesn't matter what dummy indices are used for summation. But I feel that here is a game of cancling indecis, which does not make sense. does the proof imply
{g^{bn}}R_{bml}^m = R_l^n
and
{g^{bn}}R_{bnl}^m = -R_l^m
in this case
- {g^{bn}}R_{bnl}^m = R_l^m = {g^{bm}}R_{bkl}^k
I just don't see how this is true
 
There is no cancelling of indices, just the definition of the Ricci tensor and use of the symmetries of the Riemann tensor.
 
Orodruin said:
There is no cancelling of indices, just the definition of the Ricci tensor and use of the symmetries of the Riemann tensor.
Can you be more specific? is this relationship right?

- {g^{bn}}R_{bnl}^m = R_l^m = {g^{bm}}R_{bkl}^k

sorry for haunting you. I have been stuck here for 2 days.
 
I suggest using the symmetries and antisymmetries of the Riemann tensor with all indices lowered and you should be able to figure it out.
 

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