Difficulty with understanding whether 1/n converges or diverges

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the convergence or divergence of the infinite series of 1/n, specifically examining the application of the nth term test. Participants explore the implications of the test and its limitations in determining convergence.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the series converges or diverges based on the limit of 1/n as n approaches infinity, expressing confusion about the nth term test.
  • Another participant clarifies that while the limit of the terms approaches zero, this does not guarantee convergence, as the nth term test only confirms divergence if the limit is non-zero or does not exist.
  • Several participants emphasize that the nth term test is inconclusive when the limit is zero, necessitating further tests to determine convergence or divergence.
  • One participant provides an analogy comparing the nth term test to a geometric property, illustrating that having a certain characteristic (like a limit of zero) does not imply a specific conclusion about convergence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the nth term test cannot confirm convergence when the limit is zero, but they express differing views on the implications of this test and the necessity of additional tests for determining convergence or divergence.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference the limitations of the nth term test and its inability to determine convergence when the limit is zero, highlighting the need for alternative methods to assess the series.

Travis Enigma
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Hi,
I have a quick question about whether or not the infinite series of 1/n converges or diverges. My textbook tells me that it diverges,

but my textbook also says that by the nth term test if we take the limit from n to infinity of a series, if the limit value is not equal to zero the series diverges.

If we take the limit of 1/n, as n approached infinity shouldn't the series actually converge?

Obviously, I know that I'm wrong, but what's wrong with my justification. Does the nth term test not apply here?

Thanks
 
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"If ##\sum_{n=1}^\infty a_n## converges, then ##\lim_{n\to\infty}a_n=0##" is correct.

"If ##\lim_{n\to\infty}a_n=0##, then ##\sum_{n=1}^{\infty}a_n## converges" is not correct.

If it's snowing, then it must be cold outside. But just because it's cold, it need not be snowing.
 
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The nth term test does not guarantee convergence, it merely guarantees divergence if the limit of the terms is not zero or does not exist. You must use another test to determine if the series converges.

See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Term_test
 
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But the Limit is zero, therefore by the nth term test we know it doesn't diverge. Right?

We may not know whether or not it converges, but it definitely doesn't diverge since the limit is zero and in order for it to diverge it must be nonzero?
 
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Travis Enigma said:
But the Limit is zero, therefore by the nth term test we know it doesn't diverge. Right?

No. That's not what the test says. See my post 2.
 
Travis Enigma said:
But the Limit is zero, therefore by the nth term test we know it doesn't diverge. Right?
No. If the limit of the terms is zero, then the test is inconclusive and you must use another test.
 
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I understand now, thank you so much.
 
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For a detailed explanation:
 
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Travis Enigma said:
I understand now, thank you so much.
Some tests involve equivalence of two things. For example:

##n## is an even integer if and only if ##n = 2k## for some integer ##k##

That test tells you that both:

1) If ##n## is even, then it can be written as ##n = 2k##.

2) If ##n## can be written as ##n = 2k##, then ##n## is even.

Some tests, however, only give you the "if" not the "only if". This applies to the divergence test:

If ##\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} a_n \ne 0##, then ##\sum_{n= 1}^{\infty} a_n## diverges. This test does not tell you:

If ##\sum_{n= 1}^{\infty} a_n## diverges, then ##\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} a_n \ne 0##. (WRONG!)

Which is the same as:

If ##\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} a_n = 0##, then ##\sum_{n= 1}^{\infty} a_n## converges. (WRONG!)

Another way to look at this is to identify the case where something is undecided or needs further tests:

1) If ##\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} a_n \ne 0##, then ##\sum_{n= 1}^{\infty} a_n## diverges.

2) If ##\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} a_n = 0##, then we need further tests to decide whether ##\sum_{n= 1}^{\infty} a_n## converges or diverges.
 
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Svein said:
For a detailed explanation:

I love Mathologer!
 
  • #11
Travis Enigma said:
But the Limit is zero, therefore by the nth term test we know it doesn't diverge. Right?
At the risk of repeating what others have said, many calculus textbooks refer to this test as the "Nth Term Test for Divergence," meaning that the test can be used to determine whether a series diverges. It cannot be used to determine that a given series converges.

There are two possible results:
  1. The series diverges -- this is the conclusion if ##\lim_{n \to \infty} a_n \ne 0## or the limit doesn't exist.
  2. The test is inconclusive -- this is the finding if ##\lim_{n \to \infty} a_n = 0##. The series could converge (e.g. ##\sum \frac 1{n^2}##) or it could diverge (e.g. ##\sum \frac 1 n##).
 
  • #12
To make a stretched analogy, imagine:
The four sides test: if a polygon does not have four sides, then it's not a square.

If you have a polygon with four sides, this does not tell you if it's a square or not.

The test you are looking at here is similar. It sometimes tells you something does not converge. Other times it tells you nothing.
 

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