Dimensional analysis peculiarity

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    Planck Regularization
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a peculiar result obtained from dimensional analysis involving various physical constants, specifically the fine structure constant, gravitational constant, speed of light, and Boltzmann's constant. Participants explore the implications of these relationships and the potential for misinterpretation based on the choice of measurement units.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculated a relationship involving Planck units that yields a value related to the low energy fine structure constant multiplied by 10^-19, raising questions about its significance.
  • Another participant suggested redoing the calculations using feet instead of meters to check if the relationships persist, implying that the results may not reflect physical truths if they change with unit systems.
  • A later reply confirmed that the interesting relationships disappear when using feet, indicating a potential issue with the dimensional analysis performed.
  • Another participant pointed out a discrepancy in the calculations, noting that the value for G is known to a certain precision and suggesting that the original calculations were off by 47 ppm.
  • One participant summarized that the ratio of constants appears to be exactly 1x10^-19, emphasizing the importance of units in such calculations and referencing a specific formula involving the electron charge, gravitational constant, speed of light, and Boltzmann constant.
  • There is a discussion about the fundamental nature of the Boltzmann constant, with one participant arguing that it is less fundamental than other constants and suggesting that it serves primarily as a conversion factor between energy and temperature.
  • Another participant questioned the reasoning behind regarding the Boltzmann constant as less fundamental, prompting further elaboration on its role in thermodynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of the results obtained from dimensional analysis, with some questioning the physical relevance of the findings based on unit choice. There is also a debate regarding the fundamental nature of the Boltzmann constant, indicating a lack of consensus on its importance compared to other constants.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations depend on the choice of measurement units, and there are unresolved questions about the implications of the derived relationships. The discussion also highlights the precision of known constants and the potential for discrepancies in calculations.

av163
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TL;DR
(e^2*G)/(c^2*k^2) appears to be exactly 1x10^-19
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I noticed an earlier thread about coincidences with natural constants was posted here, and this one is bugging me.

I can't remember why I calculated this, but the (Planck time^6 * Planck current^2 * Planck temperature^2)/(Planck length^3 * Planck mass^3) gives the low energy fine structure constant (reciprocal) multiplied by 10^-19.

Doing a bit more work, I found this to be tied to the relation that the product of the speed of light squared and Boltzmann's constant squared is 1.713199627x10^-29, whereas the product of the elementary charge squared and the gravitational constant is 1.713199627E-43. The additional precision in the leading digits comes from the assumption that the measured low energy fine structure constant is correct.
This would give a theoretically derived value for G of 6.674015085E-11.

Given how unnatural this exact value seems, and the fact that I've only been performing basic dimensional analysis, I suspect I might have missed a regularization of some sort? I've tried googling these values but nothing pops up. Does anybody have an idea what's happening here? :headbang:
 
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av163 said:
Does anybody have an idea what's happening here?
Quick sanity check:
Redo your calculations, except use the numerical values you get when distances are measured in feet instead of meters. Do these interesting relationships go away? If so, your calculations may be telling you something about the shoe size of a long-dead English king, but they aren’t telling us anything about any physical truth.
 
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Nugatory said:
Quick sanity check:
Redo your calculations, except use the numerical values you get when distances are measured in feet instead of meters. Do these interesting relationships go away? If so, your calculations may be telling you something about the shoe size of a long-dead English king, but they aren’t telling us anything about any physical truth.
Yep. It disappears when I use feet. :doh: Thank you, that was costing me sleep. 👍
 
Additionally, you are off by 47 ppm and G (the worst known number) is known to 22 ppm.
 
av163 said:
TL;DR Summary: (e^2*G)/(c^2*k^2) appears to be exactly 1x10^-19
A little late to the party...

but more completely, the ratio is
1×10^{-19}\ \rm s^6A^2K^2/(kg^3m^3)
where the 1×10^{-19} has an experimental uncertainly as @Vanadium 50 says.

((electron charge)^2*(Gravitational constant))/((speed of light)^2*(boltzmann constant)^2)
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?...)/((speed+of+light)^2*(boltzmann+constant)^2)

The units are important and should never be neglected.
As @Nugatory suggests, the 1×10^{-19} isn't anything fundamental since the units were ignored.

(Furthermore, I regard the Boltzmann constant less fundamental than any of the other constants in this expression.)
 
robphy said:
(Furthermore, I regard the Boltzmann constant less fundamental than any of the other constants in this expression.)
Why?
 
Frabjous said:
robphy said:
(Furthermore, I regard the Boltzmann constant less fundamental than any of the other constants in this expression.)
Why?
I regard the Boltzmann constant k_B essentially as a
conversion factor between energy and temperature for accounting purposes
because of the way energy and temperature were historically defined.

I would argue that k_B T (the energy-equivalent of absolute temperature)
is more physical than either k_B or T.
In other words, we might have defined a quantity \tau=k_BT and write all of our equations with \tau (like PV=N\tau) and never have to see k_B.
In fact, using the notion of thermodynamic-beta (\beta=\frac{1}{k_B T}) we can already write the ideal gas law as PV=N/\beta or maybe PV\beta=N.

One might want to say similar things about the speed of light c.
But, if it were my choice to simplify things, I'd start with demoting the fundamental importance of k_B.
 
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