Distance between train and its carriage

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving the dynamics of a train and its uncoupled carriage, focusing on the distances traveled by both after uncoupling and the forces acting on them. The subject area includes concepts from kinematics and dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore equations of motion for both the train and the carriage, questioning the effects of forces and accelerations after uncoupling. There is discussion about the choice of equations to use and the implications of the engine shutting off.

Discussion Status

Some participants have shared their calculations and results, noting the simplicity of the final outcome compared to the complexity of the equations used. There is an ongoing exploration of different approaches and the reasoning behind the choices made, though no consensus has been reached on a single method.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of the problem as posed, with some assumptions about the forces and accelerations involved. The value of the constant A remains unspecified, and there is a discussion about its potential values and implications for the solution.

Pushoam
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Homework Statement


upload_2017-12-12_11-23-55.png


Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Let's say that the last carriage gets uncoupled at time t = 0s and at this time the train has moved a distance ##l_0##.The resistive force could be given as ## F_r = AM##, where A is the appropriate constant and M is the mass of the system.

The pulling force is constant and since the train before getting uncoupled was moving with constant velocity, ## F_p = MA##.

After uncoupling,

The resistive force on the train gets reduced by mA, but the pulling force remains same. So, it has an acceleration ## a_t = \frac { mA } { M-m } ##.While the carriage has an acceleration ## a_c = -A## .

Let's say that the train stops at time t. According to the question, by this time, the train has moved a distance l.

So,

## l = l_0 +vt+ \frac { mA } {2( M-m) } t^2## ……….(1)

Let's say that the carriage stops at time ##t_1## after traveling a distance ##l_c ## after t=0s.

## l_c = l_0 + vt_1 - \frac { A{t_1}^2 } { 2 } ##...(2)

## 0 = v– At_1##...(3)

## t_1 = \frac {v } {A } ## ……….(4)

Putting (4) into (2), I will get ##l_c## in terms of A.

And I have l in terms of A and t.

So, I need one more equation to calculate d in terms of known quantities.

What to do now?
I have to calculate ## d = l-l_c##.
 

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Pushoam said:
at this time the train has moved a distance ##l_0##.
Might as well make that 0.
Pushoam said:
Let's say that the train stops at time t. According to the question, by this time, the train has moved a distance l.
No, the engine is shut off after distance l. It decelerates from there at the same rate as the carriage (unless that has already stopped).
 
haruspex said:
Might as well make that 0.

No, the engine is shut off after distance l. It decelerates from there at the same rate as the carriage (unless that has already stopped).
So, the stopping of engine does not mean the stopping of train.
Using ## s = s_0 + vt + \frac { at^2 } { 2 } ## made the calculation too long.

So, I thought of using ## v^2 = u^2 + 2as##. Is there anyway to know it beforehand that which eqn I should use for a given problem.

The distance traveled by the carriage after uncoupling, ## l_c = \frac { v^2 } {2A } ##.

The speed of the train at the time of the stopping of engine ## v_t = \sqrt{ \left( v^2 + \frac {2ml } { M-m} \right)}##.

The distance traveled by the train after the engine stops, ## l_e = \frac { \left( v^2 + \frac {2ml } { M-m} \right) } { 2A } ##.

So, ## d = l + l_e – l_c = l\{ 1+\frac {2m } { A(M-m)}\}##Still, the value of A is unknown.

Taking A = 2, ## d= \frac {Ml } { M-m}## , which is the option(b).

Using, common sense, the distance has to be greater than and only the option (b) shows this.

Is this correct?
 
Pushoam said:
which is the option(b).
That is what I got.
The result is so much simpler than the equations along the way I feel there must be an easier approach.
 
haruspex said:
That is what I got.
Did you solve using some other approach?
Or you also took A = 2 or simply eliminated the unreasonable options?
 
Pushoam said:
Did you solve using some other approach?
No, it was essentially the same as yours.
 
Thanks haruspex.
It feels so good to study with your help.
Thanks a lot.
 

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